The Orthodox church and marriage

[Cavaradossi]

But a Catholic can ask for the teaching in SS or ST. Your teaching is not SS nor ST. The CCC is in direct conflict with what you are saying.

Why don’t we just play the game where we point fingers and accuse the other side’s understanding of the Sacred Scriptures and the Tradition of being flawed? We could also play such venerable sports as spinning our wheels in the mud, walking in circles, watching grass grow, and banging our heads against a wall while we waste our time playing he-said-she-said.

What makes you think an Orthodox Christian would care anything for what the CCC says anyway? Do you think we accept the CCC to be the end-all be-all of truth? Rawb has already provided scriptural evidence that divorce is allowable in cases of adultery (which is traditionally one of the few reasons why the Orthodox should allow for a divorce), as well as evidence that a marriage is unbound should one partner leave another (if the one who leaves is a heathen).

 

[rinnie]

Why don’t we just play the game where we point fingers and accuse the other side’s understanding of the Sacred Scriptures and the Tradition of being flawed? We could also play such venerable sports as spinning our wheels in the mud, walking in circles, watching grass grow, and banging our heads against a wall while we waste our time playing he-said-she-said.

What makes you think an Orthodox Christian would care anything for what the CCC says anyway? Do you think we accept the CCC to be the end-all be-all of truth? Rawb has already provided scriptural evidence that divorce is allowable in cases of adultery (which is traditionally one of the few reasons why the Orthodox should allow for a divorce), as well as evidence that a marriage is unbound should one partner leave another (if the one who leaves is a heathen).

I am sure you don’t. But why is it when I show what the Church teaches I am accused of pointing fingers?

You need to show me that the CCC and the RCC teaches a different teaching then Jesus and his Aposltes taught.

The RCC has Apostolic Succession and is led by the Holy Spirit. Now how can the Holy Spirit teach different truths?

Do you deny that the HS leads the RCC?

ANd it saddens me that you don’t care what the Catholic CHurch teaches.

 

[Rawb]

I am sure you don’t. But why is it when I show what the Church teaches I am accused of pointing fingers?

Because you’re not showing what your church teaches, you’re going beyond that and saying that because the Romans have said something that must make it Tradition.

You need to show me that the CCC and the RCC teaches a different teaching then Jesus and his Aposltes taught.

Why must we do that?

The RCC has Apostolic Succession and is led by the Holy Spirit. Now how can the Holy Spirit teach different truths?

According to your church the Orthodox also have Apostolic Succession. No, the Holy Spirit does not teach different things.

Do you deny that the HS leads the RCC?

He may be active in your church, but He is not it’s ultimate Guide by my beliefs, no.

ANd it saddens me that you don’t care what the Catholic CHurch teaches.

Why?

 

[Cavaradossi]

I am sure you don’t. But why is it when I show what the Church teaches I am accused of pointing fingers?

I called it finger pointing because you said that what Rawb was saying (in defense of the Orthodox Tradition) is not within the Sacred Scriptures or the Tradition because it disagrees with the teachings of the RCC.

You need to show me that the CCC and the RCC teaches a different teaching then Jesus and his Aposltes taught.

Not quite, our goal is to defend the Orthodox Tradition which allows for divorce. We don’t need to undermine the legitimacy of the RCC by disproving the CCC in order to do that.

The RCC has Apostolic Succession and is led by the Holy Spirit. Now how can the Holy Spirit teach different truths?

What does this claim have to do with the validity of the Eastern Orthodox interpretation of divorce?

Do you deny that the HS leads the RCC?

I neither affirm nor deny. All I can say for sure is that the Holy Spirit leads the Eastern Orthodox Church.

ANd it saddens me that you don’t care what the Catholic CHurch teaches.

It’s not that I don’t care what the RCC teaches; if I didn’t care, I wouldn’t be here on CAF . What I’m saying that using the CCC against a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church is like telling a Roman Catholic that’s he’s wrong because what he says contradicts the Augsburg Confession. That doesn’t make any sense to you, does it? Neither does it make sense to us that you would tell us that we’re wrong because we contradict the CCC.

 

[rinnie]

Because you’re not showing what your church teaches, you’re going beyond that and saying that because the Romans have said something that must make it Tradition.

Why must we do that?

According to your church the Orthodox also have Apostolic Succession. No, the Holy Spirit does not teach different things.

He may be active in your church, but He is not it’s ultimate Guide by my beliefs, no.

Why?

The Holy Spirit is not the ultimate guide Then are you saying that the Holy Spirit is active in my Church but the HS is not the ultimate guide. How can that be possible. Could you explain this!

 

[rinnie]

I called it finger pointing because you said that what Rawb was saying (in defense of the Orthodox Tradition) is not within the Sacred Scriptures or the Tradition because it disagrees with the teachings of the RCC.

Not quite, our goal is to defend the Orthodox Tradition which allows for divorce. We don’t need to undermine the legitimacy of the RCC by disproving the CCC in order to do that.

What does this claim have to do with the validity of the Eastern Orthodox interpretation of divorce?

I neither affirm nor deny. All I can say for sure is that the Holy Spirit leads the Eastern Orthodox Church.

It’s not that I don’t care what the RCC teaches; if I didn’t care, I wouldn’t be here on CAF . What I’m saying that using the CCC against a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church is like telling a Roman Catholic that’s he’s wrong because what he says contradicts the Augsburg Confession. That doesn’t make any sense to you, does it? Neither does it make sense to us that you would tell us that we’re wrong because we contradict the CCC.

It is not only the CCC that you contradict its the word of God. Let me show it to you again.

Matt 19"6 Therefore what God joins together NO HUMAN BEING must separate. Now show me how allowing DIivorce does not contradict the word of God. Please show me how this means it is allowed. I would love to see it.

Lets read further THen why did MOSIS command that the man give the woman a bill of DIVORCE and dismiss her. CHRIST said because of the hardness of your hearts.

Do you know what hardness of your hearts means?

THen Christ said I SAY TO YOU whoever divorces his wife (UNLESS THE MARRIAGE is UNLAWFUL) and marries another COMMITS ADULTERY.

Now do you know what an unlawful marriage is? THat means it is not valid, not recognized by the Law. That is the only exception.

Now you tell how does this scripture agree with divorce.? IF the marriage was unlawful that means there was no marriage in the first place for a divorce to happen. Unless you are going to tell me if someone marries one and the marriage is not recognized by the law a divorce is still needed

 

[Rawb]

The Holy Spirit is not the ultimate guide Then are you saying that the Holy Spirit is active in my Church but the HS is not the ultimate guide. How can that be possible. Could you explain this!

The Holy Spirit may operate within your church just as He may operate within a Fundamentalist Protestant church, a Jewish synagogue, or an Islamic Mosque. We don’t dare restrict Him. Nevertheless just as we would say the Holy Spirit doesn’t lead those faiths, only operates within them, such it is within Catholicism. I do believe, because of your faith’s similarities to Holy Orthodoxy you cooperate more naturally with the Holy Spirit than those others (much, much more actually IMO) but still, you don’t allow Him the same freedom of His Church.

 

[dzheremi]

Very diplomatically put, Rawb.

 

[Rawb]

Very diplomatically put, Rawb.

Maybe there’s hope for me yet.

I know everyone on this thread is pretty devout, I’d ask you to pray for my Grandmother.

 

[dzheremi]

Done and done, my friend. May the prayers of the saints be with her, and with you.

 

[rinnie]

Maybe there’s hope for me yet.

I know everyone on this thread is pretty devout, I’d ask you to pray for my Grandmother.

She is in my prayers.