The Orthodox Church of Puerto Rico enters into communion with the Catholic Church

[Expatreprocedit]

What seems to be missing is an account of how the people in the parish came to change their theological beliefs. Presumably, when this parish was Orthodox the people didn’t believe in universal papal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, indulgences, the immaculate conception of Mary, or the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit equally from the Father and the Son. Now, presumably, they all do. That seems like something they would want to talk about.

 

[Augustine]

I guess one thing we can all agree on is that it isn’t easy to say “I was wrong.”

Especially when the truth was compromised, watered down and sold out. Indeed, it ain’t easy to acknowledge a mistake when it all blows in up in everyone’s faces. Or at least not when the hubris that engendered the mistake still persists.

 

[twf]

What seems to be missing is an account of how the people in the parish came to change their theological beliefs. Presumably, when this parish was Orthodox the people didn’t believe in universal papal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, indulgences, the immaculate conception of Mary, or the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit equally from the Father and the Son. Now, presumably, they all do. That seems like something they would want to talk about.

I imagine that like many Catholics, and some Orthodox, they believe that the Filioque and the Immaculate Conception, to use two of your examples, can be reconciled with Eastern theology…and like Eastern Catholics, they do not express these doctrines using Latin theological constructs. Many Eastern Catholics give no or little thought to indulgences one way or another.
That being said, I presume their understanding of papal primacy has developed.

 

[Augustine]

I imagine that like many Catholics, and some Orthodox, they believe that the Filioque and the Immaculate Conception, to use two of your examples, can be reconciled with Eastern theology…

No and no.

That being said, I presume their understanding of papal primacy has developed.

Which is likely not difficult in a thoroughly Catholic country like PR.

 

[twf]

No and no.

Which is likely not difficult in a thoroughly Catholic country like PR.

That’s your position. I personally know of Orthodox Christians who have, at least to their own satisfaction, reconciled the IC and the Filioque with Eastern theology. That doesn’t mean they recite the Latin Creed or celebrate the feast of the Immaculate Conception…but they recognize that these Latin doctrines are not necessarily heretical if understood correctly.

 

[Augustine]

but they recognize that these Latin doctrines are not necessarily heretical if understood correctly.

Correctly? According to Orthodoxy, the most charitable way to understand them is that they are unnecessary and irrelevant.

 

[Expatreprocedit]

Many Eastern Catholics give no or little thought to indulgences one way or another.

Well, how could that be? Belief in indulgences is de fide for all Catholics united to Rome, is it not?

 

[Expatreprocedit]

Twf said that Eastern Catholics gave it “little or no thought”.

 

[babs57]

That’s a bit odd, seeing as we just finished the Extraordinary Jubilee Year of Mercy, and a holy door for plenary indulgences was open at every cathedral around the world.

 

[twf]

I’m actually Latin. I have mentioned that I have some relatives who are Orthodox…maybe that’s what you remembered? That being said, I certainly do have an appreciation for the beauty of the Divine Liturgy!

Yes, I meant that Eastern Catholics are not in any way require to incorporate indulgences into their own spiritual lives. They are certainly welcome to, but there is no requirement that they do so nor give them any particular thought.
Of course, as I understand it, indulgences have their root in a concept very similar to the Eastern practice of “economy”. In the early Church, grave sins would have “set” prescribed penances - sometimes these standard penances would take years to complete. Bishops could, by the power of binding and loosing given to them, exercise the Church’s mercy to reduce these set penances. The concept of indulgences evolved from this practice.

 

[Genesis315]

Just as Catholics resent the splitting of the Body of Christ, so do the Orthodox. Instead of triumphalism, this should be a moment of soberness about the scandalous split in Christendom, which this parish is just a glaring example, not of healing, but of the wound.

Lord, have mercy!

This is a little bit of healing (the reconciliation of even one person is). Catholics can certainly have joy in seeing some of their separated brethren reconciled. We definitely cannot have a false triumphalism (the triumph here is God’s) or believe that the reconciliation of one community means that the will of God for the unity of all Christians has been achieved.

But we also can’t equate a person defecting from the Catholic Church to an Orthodox Church with a person moving in the other direction–we would need to embrace a false relativism to do so.

 

[FrDcnJohn]

I thought Pope Francis said it was a sin to attempt to convert Orthodox?

Here is the “holy land” of North Eastern Pennsylvania this is a rather sensitive topic. St. Alexis Toth is buried and has a shrine at the seminary I attend so I am a little close to it.

Although relations are generally good with our Roman brothers and sisters, the older generation is generally still very suspicious of the Roman church and particularly the “Uniates” (I personally do not care for that term). I sincerely hope that true reconciliation between our two churches occurs and these minor skirmishes do not harm the progress that has been made. An entire congregation being received is bound to ruffle some feathers.

My diocese regularly meets with our local Roman Catholic diocese (Harrisburg) to engender good will and work toward our common mission. This makes me so happy and God willing, should I ever be ordained to major orders after seminary; something I hope to work on personally. I was baptized Roman Catholic with Byzantine grandparents and attended Catholic school my entire life. I have a deep love for the Catholic church and hope we can one day be reconciled. We must all tread lightly however so that we do not destroy the foundations of reconciliation that have recently been built.

For anyone interested here is a link to a brief biography of St. Alexis of Wilkes Barre.

oca.org/saints/lives/2016/05/07/101300-repose-of-st-alexis-toth-the-confessor-and-defender-of-orthodoxy

 

[Wesrock]

I thought Pope Francis said it was a sin to attempt to convert Orthodox?

Well, there’s a difference between going out and trying to “evangelize” Orthodox and an Orthodox community of its own accord moving into communion with Rome.

Bu that said, I came back into this topic to nake another topic. We see the Orthodox as completely valid Churches. We shouldn’t really be looking for individual parishes to make the jump, in general. It’s not like the Protestant denominations, with no valid bishops, no valid succession, no valid communion. With the Orthodox, it seems like communion decisions should not be done at the parish level, but at the level of the episcopate, if anything. Maybe even metropolitans. I mean, ideally, it’d be everyone at once moving into communion again, but if there’s going to be any change, it seems to me it should be bishops making determinations on the communion for the entire diocese, and priests should stay with their bishop.