The OSAS "Top 13" List

[CentralFLJames]

1 *having possession of the Truth ** * You claim to posses that which belongs to God
2 this absolute Catholic truth which we have in our trust is a terrible burden to us and we are held to a higher standard * Once again absolute truth can only belong to God *
3 We must not become “puffed up” In my opinion you have already gone down this road.
4 Rather we the possessors of the truth
5 These others wrestle against principalities and spiritual deceptions that have quite cleverly disguised error as a faux illumination that only serves to entangle and more securely trap the more they stubbornly cling to this poisonous vine as if it was a friendly life line Pride definitely entangles us if we let it.

First of all Shell YOU need to to come to understand that when Catholics speak of fullness of faith and truth we are speaking of it as an inheritance THROUGH the CHURCH. It is not our own. It is in our care and possession for the sole purpose of sharing it, teaching it and increasing the Kingdom. Catholics can speak in the possessive sense by right of our Catholic Teaching - that is not a personal teaching or entirely a personal possession. So try to depersonalize the judgements you are making and come to understand that when Catholics speak in this topic area we are speaking collectively in the context of The Catholic Church.

From this context let me rebutt a few things here:

1. God through the apostles has given the Catholic Church custodianship of the sacred deposit of faith. Not all truth is yet manifest or revealed but God has spoken His Divine Word in ther divine person of Christ and “said it all”. There is nothing new to add - only greater revelation of that one truth that is entrusted to His Church. Also the Holy Spirit has been promised to HIS CHURCH and it is THE SOUL of The Church. So in a certain mystical sense The Church possesses through our custody the Spirit of TRUTH.

This is not a possession but an entrustment since God can not by contained only communed with. Jesus said His Church would be “the light of the world.” He then noted that “a city set on a hill cannot be hid” (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return. So, The Catholic Church, as “His Church”, is the visible holder of The Truth. You might like to read this very illuminating article: Pillar of Fire Pillar of Truth.

1. Jesus is the absolute Truth but The Church IS THE BODY OF CHRIST and is inseparable from Jesus. Therefor it can be said that on earth The Truth resides in The Church and NOT in misinterpreted bible interpretations but rather in the Living Word of God present in HIS CHURCH - The Catholic Church. Being One with God is to have access to The Truth just as being entrusted with the deposit of faith. Those outside of The Church do not have access to the full truth and in fact have chosen to seperate themselves far from it in preference to their own false teachings give as if truths.
2. In my opinion you have already gone down this road?
   But why would I value your opinion when you are outside of the truth and there are 6 billion private opinions out there? You judge by your own standard not God’s.
3. Perhaps I should change the word to trusted custodian’s of the truth. But in any respect it is not personal it is said in the context of “The Church” of which all Catholics are part of.
4. Yes - pride in one’s own private interpreations of truth brings many into grave error. Fortunately, individual Catholics can escape this common trap seen in private interpretation of scripture by trusting Jesus at His Word that The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth and He will not permit the gate of hell to prevail against it. Thus Truth is unassailable and The Truth defends itself IN THE CONTEXT OF THE CHURCH.

James

 

[Tomster]

I’ve been giving this threat some thought. First of all, we now know there are more than 13 verses that are used as proof points to justify the Protestant positions. But we need to group them in categories. Obviously, the OP list was not all focused on the concept of OSAS, but rather on several Protestant deviations from the base Catholic position. (i.e, these are doctrinal issues that they are " protesting".

I was thinking about what those doctrinal issues are so that we could group the verses into them as categories.

Here is a first pass:

sola Fide : verses that support " salvation by Faith alone" versus the Catholic Position of that Salvation is based getting into the state of grace through faith by Baptism and then staying in the state of Grace by demonstrating your faith through works of love and by using then sacrament of reconciliation when we fall from Grace through Sin

That’s a very sound and well reasoned approach Paul. Thank you.

 

[Pug]

Assurance of Salvation: verses that support the position that you can be assured of your salvation prior to death by your faith as opposed to the Catholic position where your salvation is not assured until you die in the state of Grace. (this is the basis of the OSAS discussion)

Here are some of the ones mentioned so far on this topic, plus a few more. Some of these might also wish to be in the topic of faith alone, but it is difficult to know where the OSAS person would typically categorize them.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:3-5

         My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
        **John 10:27-29**

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:38-39

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
**1 John 5:13

**In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
**Ephesians 1:13-14

**Maybe these fit in more than one topic:

for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”**
Romans 10:13

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

**Note, verses supplied in a non-Catholic translation. Please edit this list and add any that ought to be on this list. If you wish to match translation, use the NASB or its update.

 

[Mark77]

Do you have 13 verse saying OSAS is false

" "Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ " Mt 7:21-23

Here’s one to get the ball rolling. This is too easy.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark