The OT Law Fulfilled in Christ?

[J.W.B]

Is not the Old Testament Law concerning the stoning to death of people who comitted murder, dis-obiediance to parents, adultery etc, and simular laws fulfilled in Christ? Isn’t that what He meant when He spoke “Do not think I have come to abolish the law, but I have come to fulfill it.” And “Heaven and earth will pass away but not one jot or tittle of the law.”

The Church teaches that all of this was fulfilled in Christ and that’s why there is no more of condemming men to death correct? I mean Christ spared the woman who was CAUGHT in Adultery and said “Let any man who is without sin cast the first stone.”

I just ask these questions because someone I know still thinks these laws should be done to the guilty. Well then I suppose the priests who hear confessions of these sins should have other priests ready to stone the confessing person to death.

 

[Grace_and_Glory]

I actually was talking to someone about this just a few days ago.

Christ did come to fulfill the law, but you are right in stating that we are no longer bound by every law in the Old Testament. After all, we do not have to be circumcised or only eat ‘clean’ animals. You might want to point this out to your friend. Also, Hebrews chapter 8 addresses the relationship between the old covenant and Christ’s covenant. The author quotes from Jeremiah 31:31-34

6 But Jesus has now obtained a more excellent ministry, and to that degree he is the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted through better promises.
7 For if the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need to look for a second one.
8 God finds fault with them when he says: “The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
**9 **not like the covenant that I made with their ancestors, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, so I had no concern for them, says the Lord.
10 This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
11 And they shall not teach one another or say to each other, ‘Know the Lord’, for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”
13 In speaking of “a new covenant,” he has made the first one obsolete. And what is obsolete and growing old will soon disappear.

 

[Verbum]

HI JWB,
When Jesus says he came to fulfil the Law and the Prophets, he is not talking specifically about prescriptions of law; he is saying that he came to fulfil the Bible, because the Law and the Prophets was what the Jews called their Bible.

Now this does not mean that every line in the bible has a corresponding “fulfilment” in the new. It means that the history and nature of our salvation (which is the essential “topic” of the Bible) is initiated, predicted, foreshadowed and symbolized in the Old Testament.

However, the interpretation of these events or messages is not haphazard. The Bible itself explains them. For example, St.Paul tells us that baptism is foreshadowed by the crossing of the Red Sea. St. Peter tells us that Noah’s ark symbolizes salvation through water.

Verbum

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello JWB,

A covenant is a contract. God contracts with the Israelites that if they love and obey Him, He will give them eternal life. The only way for anyone in Old Testament or New Testament to go to heaven is through Jesus. Jesus fulfills God’s end of both the Old Testament and the New Testament covenants of eternal life. King David does not know the name Jesus but He proclaims his salvation in the Right Hand of God. We know that the Right Hand of God is Jesus Christ.

As far as stonings, please visit Throwing Stones . Jesus kicked death sentences up a knotch, to the spiritual level, when He gave St. Peter the power to call upon Him to hold a man bound to his sins in heaven. A man cannot go to heaven if Jesus holds him bound to his sins in heaven.

NAB GAL 2:21

I will not treat God’s gracious gift as pointless. If justice is available through the law, then Christ died to no purpose! NAB DEU 30:19

“I call heaven and earth today to witness against you:** I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life,** then, that you and your descendants may live, by loving the LORD, your God, heeding his voice, and holding fast to him.”

NAB SIR 15:11 Man’s Free Will.

Say not: “It was God’s doing that I fell away”; for what he hates he does not do. Say not: “It was he who set me astray”; for he has no need of wicked man. Abominable wickedness the LORD hates, he does not let it befall those who fear him. When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice. If you choose you can keep the commandments; it is loyalty to do his will. There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand. Before man are life and death, whichever he chooses shall be given him.

NAB MAT 26:64

Jesus answered: “It is you who say it. But I tell you this: Soon you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” NAB PSA 80:18

May your help be with the man of your right hand, with the son of man whom you yourself made strong.

NAB PSA 118:15

The joyful shout of victory in the tents of the just: "The right hand of the LORD has struck with power: The right hand of the LORD is exalted; the right hand of the LORD has struck with power." I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD. Though the LORD has indeed chastised me, yet he has not delivered me to death. Open to me the gates of justice; I will enter them and give thanks to the LORD. This gate is the LORD’s; the just shall enter it. I will give thanks to you, for you have answered me and have been my savior. The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. By the LORD has this been done; it is wonderful in our eyes. This is the day the LORD has made; let us be glad and rejoice in it. O LORD, grant salvation! O LORD, grant prosperity!
**NAB MAT 16:13 **

Jesus replied, “Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are ‘Rock,’ and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

 

[edwinG]

J.W.B.:

Is not the Old Testament Law concerning the stoning to death of people who comitted murder, dis-obiediance to parents, adultery etc, and simular laws fulfilled in Christ? Isn’t that what He meant when He spoke “Do not think I have come to abolish the law, but I have come to fulfill it.” And “Heaven and earth will pass away but not one jot or tittle of the law.”

The Church teaches that all of this was fulfilled in Christ and that’s why there is no more of condemming men to death correct? I mean Christ spared the woman who was CAUGHT in Adultery and said “Let any man who is without sin cast the first stone.”

I just ask these questions because someone I know still thinks these laws should be done to the guilty. Well then I suppose the priests who hear confessions of these sins should have other priests ready to stone the confessing person to death.

Hi J.W.B.,
Think of a long empty cylinder. At the start it is empty, there is no law. Then with Moses , God gave the law. So now imagine that the cylinder has been partly filled.
Now came Jesus. And He filled the law up. How did He do this.
Take the law, an eye for an eye. Before their was no law so if some one lost an eye in a skirmish, the agrieved party might go and kill the person who took his eye. See there was no limit. Now God in His mercy put limits on revenge, limiting the revenge to a similar punishment, no more. This is not a law of justice
Now Christ came, Now you can not take the eye in revenge, no not even a bad word no but you must forgive him. See, Christ has topped it right up to the spiritual level.
Now when the law was only at the eye for an eye level, no one was able to comply, all were guilty.
So how can a person possibly obey now when everything is so much harder. Easy, you follow the Holy Spirit. Christ wont ask you to do anything He does not give you the strength to overcome. Say one of your God’s is alcohol, another is smoking and another is food.
God calls you. You are not immediately free of these sins but you are sinless. You just trust in Him, hate being a slave to these addictions but still bending your knee to them… Your time will come, if you are praying for strength to overcome, when Christ will ask you to give up your alcohol addiction. Now He wont ask unless He supplies the strength for you to overcome. You will overcome by His strength not yours. Then you may be praying about some other sin, He will come and with HIs strength you will have victory.He will only come and give you strength to overcome those sins you want to overcome. Many people dont want Christ in some part of their life. They enjoy their sin, maybe not even regarding it as sin. In these areas they dont invite Chirst in, because if they do, they know He will come and then they will have to say bye bye to some favourite habit or sport or activity or emotion etc.
Marriage. first no law, then divorce by letter, probably not so easy 3000 years ago when most people could not write and had to wait until a visit to the temple in a few months time. Now it not allowed to divorce , unless a party is unfaithfull.
About the sabbath, Jesus is also Lord of the Sabbath and it is now a day for doing good. Jesus is Lord of all festivals, so it is not a sin to miss any. IT depends on what the leading is from the Holy Spirit. If you do it incorrrectly He will convict you.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[J.W.B]

edwinG:

Hi J.W.B.,
Think of a long empty cylinder. At the start it is empty, there is no law. Then with Moses , God gave the law. So now imagine that the cylinder has been partly filled.
Now came Jesus. And He filled the law up. How did He do this.
Take the law, an eye for an eye. Before their was no law so if some one lost an eye in a skirmish, the agrieved party might go and kill the person who took his eye. See there was no limit. Now God in His mercy put limits on revenge, limiting the revenge to a similar punishment, no more. This is not a law of justice
Now Christ came, Now you can not take the eye in revenge, no not even a bad word no but you must forgive him. See, Christ has topped it right up to the spiritual level.
Now when the law was only at the eye for an eye level, no one was able to comply, all were guilty.
So how can a person possibly obey now when everything is so much harder. Easy, you follow the Holy Spirit. Christ wont ask you to do anything He does not give you the strength to overcome. Say one of your God’s is alcohol, another is smoking and another is food.
God calls you. You are not immediately free of these sins but you are sinless. You just trust in Him, hate being a slave to these addictions but still bending your knee to them… Your time will come, if you are praying for strength to overcome, when Christ will ask you to give up your alcohol addiction. Now He wont ask unless He supplies the strength for you to overcome. You will overcome by His strength not yours. Then you may be praying about some other sin, He will come and with HIs strength you will have victory.He will only come and give you strength to overcome those sins you want to overcome. Many people dont want Christ in some part of their life. They enjoy their sin, maybe not even regarding it as sin. In these areas they dont invite Chirst in, because if they do, they know He will come and then they will have to say bye bye to some favourite habit or sport or activity or emotion etc.
Marriage. first no law, then divorce by letter, probably not so easy 3000 years ago when most people could not write and had to wait until a visit to the temple in a few months time. Now it not allowed to divorce , unless a party is unfaithfull.
About the sabbath, Jesus is also Lord of the Sabbath and it is now a day for doing good. Jesus is Lord of all festivals, so it is not a sin to miss any. IT depends on what the leading is from the Holy Spirit. If you do it incorrrectly He will convict you.
walk in love
edwinG

I appreciate your kind answer and do believe what you say has truth in it, but I disagree on sins and divorce. I believe that if you are in a continuence state of alcohol then that sin is still within you. I believe it’s a scary thing to continue in a sin and believed your merely “covered” by Christ’s blood. I also believe that there is to be NO divorce, even for unfaithfullness. The man and the woman are bound to one another (if the marriage was valid) as long as they live. But thanks for your help.

No it’s just that my friend seems to think stoning to death (God’s Law) would cease alot of crime. Butwe are not put on this earth to please ourselves having a perfect world, we are put here to preach the message of Christ. If one is caught in mortal sin or has confessed a mortal sin of adultery then we forgive him, if he will not stop it then sadly we excommunicate him from the Church until he repents, but we do not put him to death. For we are here to build up God’s kingdom. Amen.