The other sheep...

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flyonthewall

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In John 10:16, Jesus states:
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Who do you say are the other sheep?
 
They are the Torah Jews of each generation since Jesus ascended. And when He returns, then the scales will fall from their eyes and theirs ears will be opened and they will , finally, know just Who is Is, Messiah.
 
I understood it to mean anyone who is not Christian, someone who does not believe Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah. That would include atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Jews etc

🙂
 
I have been looking around this text a bit, other version it refers to.
the other other sheeps are called the small herd. If we know what this small herd is

This makes clear that there are severals shorts of sheeps:
-Part of the small herd
-Part of the big herd(the other sheeps of John 10:16)

As we all know the sheeps are true Christians, as in another verse of the Bible the sheeps and the goats are seperated. In which the goats arent the good guys.

In Revelation 7 this is mentioned again, there the 144.000 that are sealed get mentioned.
Obviously the small herd, certainly when you compare it to the verses that follow on it.
In version 9 of Rev 7 a big herd/crowd get mentioned.
Obviously the big herd as in John 10:16

So in short you got 2 sides:
-small herd with the hope to go the heaven(144.000)
-Big herd that has the hope on living forever on a paradise on earth(which should be coming later on according to the Bible ‘‘New heavens and new earth’’)

But BOTH groups are true christians.

As you see i leave behind the explaination of the hope on heaven or paradise earth,
as that is a bit going off topic.

Greetings,
Bianconeri
 
Jesus said: “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matthew 15:24. During his time on earth Jesus had no interaction with the Gentiles. He greatly lamented the fact that He was largely rejected by His own people. See Luke 13:34. Therefore the other sheep were the Gentiles. These were the people to whom the apostles took the gospel.
 
flyonthewall said:
In John 10:16, Jesus states:
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Who do you say are the other sheep?
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I think the general consensus is that Jesus primary mission was to the Jews of his day, as he told the Canaanite woman, but he was setting the stage to prepare them but chiefly his disciples for the evangelization of the gentiles.
 
flyonthewall said:
In John 10:16, Jesus states:
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Who do you say are the other sheep?
Click to expand...
they are the gentiles
 
The “other sheep” were the Gentiles.

I had a mormon tell me once that the “other sheep” were the American Indians so after the resurrection, Jesus went to North and South America (rather than Ascend to His Father) to preach the good news. From what I understand, they still believe that.
 
Zenas said:
Jesus said: “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matthew 15:24. During his time on earth Jesus had no interaction with the Gentiles. He greatly lamented the fact that He was largely rejected by His own people. See Luke 13:34. Therefore the other sheep were the Gentiles. These were the people to whom the apostles took the gospel.
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I think you’re reading that wrong.
Mat 15:22 And behold a woman of Canaan who came out of those coasts, crying out, said to him: Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David: my daughter is grievously troubled by a devil.
Mat 15:23 Who answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying: Send her away, for she crieth after us:
Mat 15:24 And he answering, said: I was not sent but to the sheep, that are lost of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:25 But she came and adored him, saying: Lord, help me.
Mat 15:26 Who answering, said: It is not good to take the bread of the children, and to cast it to the dogs.
Mat 15:27 But she said: Yea, Lord; for the whelps also eat of the crumbs that fall from the table of their masters.
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answering, said to her: O woman, great is thy faith: be it done to thee as thou wilt: and her daughter was cured from that hour.
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Haydock commentary…
Mat 15:26-27 And to cast it to the dogs; i.e. to Gentiles, sometimes so called by the Jews. (Witham) — The diminutive word Greek: Kunarios, or whelp, is used in both these verses in the Septuagint. Our Lord crosses the wishes of the Chanaanæan, not that he intended to reject her, but that he might bring to light the hidden and secret treasure of her virtue. Let us admire not only the greatness of her faith, but likewise the profoundness of her humility; for when our Saviour called the Jews children, so far from being envious or another’s praise, she readily answers, and gives them the title of lords; and when Christ likened her to a dog, she presently acknowledges the meanness of her condition. (St. John Chrysostom, hom. liii.) He refused at first to listen to her petition, says the same saint, to instruct us with what faith, humility, and perseverance we ought to pray. To make his servants more sensible of his mercy, and more eager to obtain it, he often appears to pay no attention to their prayers, till he had exercised them in the virtues of humility and patience. Ask, and you shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened to you. (Haydock)
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It seems that so far, the “other” sheep not of this fold, are considered to be the gentiles.
I can understand why that would be the conclusion drawn.
However, in light of Matthew 15, Jesus stated that He was not sent to the gentiles, His ministry would be to the House of Israel. It seems logical that His other sheep not of this fold, would still be the House of Israel, but not there where He ministered.

Any other differing points of view?
 
flyonthewall said:
It seems that so far, the “other” sheep not of this fold, are considered to be the gentiles.
I can understand why that would be the conclusion drawn.
However, in light of Matthew 15, Jesus stated that He was not sent to the gentiles, His ministry would be to the House of Israel. It seems logical that His other sheep not of this fold, would still be the House of Israel, but not there where He ministered.

Any other differing points of view?
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The gentiles…who will be gathered into the flock with those of Israel…

As the verse states: " …one flock and one shepherd." Notice the verse ends with those words…Christ wants to bring in the Gentiles with those of Israel so that there is only one…meaning one church, one shepherd…and not many churches/denominations with different beliefs.
 
flyonthewall said:
In John 10:16, Jesus states:
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Who do you say are the other sheep?
Click to expand...
Rev.12: 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

God’s end time remnant church consists of those that keep the ten commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Which is as Rev.19:10b tells us Rev.19:10bfor the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. is the spirit of prophecy. This narrows the field considerably. Since God’s remnant church are those that keep the commandment, meaning the ten commandments including the Sabbath, that leaves the majority of Christianity as well as all non-Christians as the “other sheep.” This end time remnant must also have the spirit of prophecy.
 
Richard_Kastner said:
Rev.12: 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

God’s end time remnant church consists of those that keep the ten commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Which is as Rev.19:10b tells us Rev.19:10bfor the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. is the spirit of prophecy. This narrows the field considerably. Since God’s remnant church are those that keep the commandment, meaning the ten commandments including the Sabbath, that leaves the majority of Christianity as well as all non-Christians as the “other sheep.” This end time remnant must also have the spirit of prophecy.
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After reading this, I have a question for you Richard.

The origins of SDA are around 1863 and there were separations around 1925 and again around 1929.

What do you say happened to the ‘sheep’, that worshiped on Sundays, for 1800++ years, prior to the origin of SDA?
 
flyonthewall said:
In John 10:16, Jesus states:
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Who do you say are the other sheep?
Click to expand...
At the time Christ was speaking, it would have meant the Gentiles, or non-Jews. In other words, the days of exclusive Judaism were over.
 
Actually it was the interaction from the Gentiles seeking Jesus, when he began the hour of his passion, death and resurrection.

Jesus became ecstatic when “some Greeks came to inquire and see Jesus”, so much so that Jesus proclaimed, “The hour has come for the Son of man to be glorified”, after Andrew and Philip told Jesus the Greeks are seeking him, John 12:20-23

Jesus has forever broken down the dividing wall between Jew and Greek, slave and freeperson and making them all one in himself.

Ephesians 2:11
6 Therefore, remember that at one time you, Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by those called the circumcision, which is done in the flesh by human hands,
12
**were at that time without Christ, alienated from the community of Israel 7 and strangers to the covenants of promise, without hope and without God in the world.
13
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the blood of Christ. **

Galatians 3:27
18 19 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28
**There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. **29
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendant, heirs according to the promise.

Jesus gives Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven along with the other apostles to bind and loose on earth as Jesus binds and loose in heaven. The revelations of Jesus Christ are to be proclaimed to all the nations in every age in the unity of the one Church Jesus founded upon under one visible head “Peter” (Mt.16:14-19) in communion with the apostolic college of bishops worldwide.

It is from this “pillar and foundation of Truth” = 1Tim.3:15, that the Church is to gather all the lost sheep, and into one flock, to which Jesus commands Peter (Popes) to "tend, teach, and feed God’s flock = see John 21:15-17

Peace be with you
Zenas;7780055]Jesus said: “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matthew 15:24. During his time on earth Jesus had no interaction with the Gentiles. He greatly lamented the fact that He was largely rejected by His own people. See Luke 13:34. Therefore the other sheep were the Gentiles. These were the people to whom the apostles took the gospel
Click to expand...
.
 
I’ve always had a secret hope that He was talking about intelligent beings on other planets.

However, I think I have to throw in with those who say He was talking about the Gentiles.

DaveBj
 
DaveBj said:
I’ve always had a secret hope that He was talking about intelligent beings on other planets.

However, I think I have to throw in with those who say He was talking about the Gentiles.

DaveBj
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Beam me up Scottie. There’s no intelligent life down here. 😃

I couldn’t resist. 😉
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
After reading this, I have a question for you Richard.

The origins of SDA are around 1863 and there were separations around 1925 and again around 1929.

What do you say happened to the ‘sheep’, that worshiped on Sundays, for 1800++ years, prior to the origin of SDA?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure why you consider this relavant, but anyway, it never really has been about the day. The day is important but the real question is. Allegiance, does the person sincerely wish to do the will of God. It is my belief that most Christians believe that the Sunday is the new Sabbath, and are sincerely attempting to do God’s will in their keeping of this counterfit Sabbath. I believe that these, if they confess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and repent of their sins, will be in His heavenly Kingdom. However, in the time just before Jesus return, I believe we will see a resurgence in the teaching of God’s holy Sabbath, and when Jesus returns, among those that He brings back with Him to heaven will be no Sunday keepers. This is clearly brought out in Isaiah 66:

20And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

21And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Notice in v. 23 it says ALL flesh will worship God on the Sabbath in His new heaven and new earth. And those that do worship on the Sabbath will go out to view the carcases of those that have transgressed (sinned) against God. Among those carcasses will be Sunday keepers who have not come back to God’s commandments. See what it’s really about is allegiance. Either you are true to God and His commandments (heaven) or you are true to man and his commandments (lake of fire). Those that do come back are the “other sheep”.
 
Interesting; Have you ever read the prophecy of Malcahi?

Malachi 1:10
3 Oh, that one among you would shut the temple gates to keep you from kindling fire on my altar in vain! I have no pleasure in you, says the LORD of hosts; neither will I accept any sacrifice from your hands,
11
**For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts. **
12
But you behave profanely toward me by thinking the LORD’S table and its offering may be polluted, and its food slighted.
13
You also say, “What a burden!” and you scorn it, says the LORD of hosts; You bring in what you seize, or the lame, or the sick; yes, you bring it as a sacrifice. Shall I accept it from your hands? says the LORD.
14
Cursed is the deceiver, who has in his flock a male, but under his vow sacrifices to the LORD a gelding; For a great King am I, says the LORD of hosts, and my name will be feared among the nations.

Apparently someone has decieved you, for in the Catholic Church the prophecy of Malachi comes to pass, when every hour on the hour from sunrise to sunset we offer up a pure and acceptable sacrifice unto God not just before the Sabbath but during and after the Sabbath in every nation (around the world) for the past 2000 years. Our worship is for the Lord of the Sabbath not the Sabbath itself which was made for man (flesh) Mark 2:27.

You mix old wineskins with new wine which causes destruction. Jesus states “behold I make all things new” (Revelations 21:5), is the New and everlasting covenant in the blood of Jesus.

If you claim to the old covenant it is Moses who will judge you. for me and my household we would much prefer the mercy of Jesus, because Moses killed his own kin when they disobeyed God.

John 5:42
moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you.
43
I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him.
44
How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God?
45
Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father: the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope.
46
For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me.
47
But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?"

p.s. Isaiah 66:23 deals with a “NEW SABBATH” not the old wineskins with the new wine (Life) Jesus provides. God does not contradict Himself from His Own Word. Please review verse 22 which speaks about a “NEW EARTH AND NEW HEAVEN” not the old one which you are appear to be holding too?

Please recall “all new revelations ended with Jesus and the last living apostle”. You appear to introduce a new gospel, of which Jesus never revealed.

Peace be with you
Richard_Kastner said:
I’m not sure why you consider this relavant, but anyway, it never really has been about the day. The day is important but the real question is. Allegiance, does the person sincerely wish to do the will of God. It is my belief that most Christians believe that the Sunday is the new Sabbath, and are sincerely attempting to do God’s will in their keeping of this counterfit Sabbath. I believe that these, if they confess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and repent of their sins, will be in His heavenly Kingdom. However, in the time just before Jesus return, I believe we will see a resurgence in the teaching of God’s holy Sabbath, and when Jesus returns, among those that He brings back with Him to heaven will be no Sunday keepers. This is clearly brought out in Isaiah 66:

20And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

21And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Notice in v. 23 it says ALL flesh will worship God on the Sabbath in His new heaven and new earth. And those that do worship on the Sabbath will go out to view the carcases of those that have transgressed (sinned) against God. Among those carcasses will be Sunday keepers who have not come back to God’s commandments. See what it’s really about is allegiance. Either you are true to God and His commandments (heaven) or you are true to man and his commandments (lake of fire). Those that do come back are the “other sheep”.
Click to expand...
 
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