The other sheep...

[Richard_Kastner]

Interesting; Have you ever read the prophecy of Malcahi?

Malachi 1:10
3 Oh, that one among you would shut the temple gates to keep you from kindling fire on my altar in vain! I have no pleasure in you, says the LORD of hosts; neither will I accept any sacrifice from your hands,
11
**For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts. **
12
But you behave profanely toward me by thinking the LORD’S table and its offering may be polluted, and its food slighted.
13
You also say, “What a burden!” and you scorn it, says the LORD of hosts; You bring in what you seize, or the lame, or the sick; yes, you bring it as a sacrifice. Shall I accept it from your hands? says the LORD.
14
Cursed is the deceiver, who has in his flock a male, but under his vow sacrifices to the LORD a gelding; For a great King am I, says the LORD of hosts, and my name will be feared among the nations.

Apparently someone has decieved you, for in the Catholic Church the prophecy of Malachi comes to pass, when every hour on the hour from sunrise to sunset we offer up a pure and acceptable sacrifice unto God not just before the Sabbath but during and after the Sabbath in every nation (around the world) for the past 2000 years. Our worship is for the Lord of the Sabbath not the Sabbath itself which was made for man (flesh) Mark 2:27.

Malachai 10 is not a prophecy. Note v. 12 **But you behave profanely toward **me by thinking the LORD’S table and its offering may be polluted, and its food slighted.

This is the present tense. The Lord is talking about how Israel has acted in the past and is acting in the present time, ie. the time of Malachi. This is not talking of the future.

You mix old wineskins with new wine which causes destruction. Jesus states “behold I make all things new” (Revelations 21:5), is the New and everlasting covenant in the blood of Jesus.

If you claim to the old covenant it is Moses who will judge you. for me and my household we would much prefer the mercy of Jesus, because Moses killed his own kin when they disobeyed God.

John 5:42
moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you.
43
I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him.
44
How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God?
45
Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father: the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope.
46
For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me.
47
But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?"

So, what you are saying is that the people of the new covenant are no longer bound by the laws that God spoke with His own mouth and wrote with His own finger in stone to signify it’s permanece. You are saying this is done away with, Right?

p.s. Isaiah 66:23 deals with a “NEW SABBATH” not the old wineskins with the new wine (Life) Jesus provides. God does not contradict Himself from His Own Word. Please review verse 22 which speaks about a “NEW EARTH AND NEW HEAVEN” not the old one which you are appear to be holding too?

Here’s v. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

I’m sorry but it doesn’t say that this is a “NEW SABBATH” it merely talks about the Sabbath. The same Sabbath that it talks about here.

Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

and that Jesus talks about here

Mark2
27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

which talks about the Sabbath being for ALL men (not just the Jews) and that He is the Lord of it making the Sabbath the Lord’s day.

V. 22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. is a prophecy, note future tense and is a direct reference to Rev. Revelation 21:1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

This is a reference to the future and means quite literally that this will be a NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH. Also a new Jerusalem these are new because the old have been burned up.
2Peter3
7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Please recall “all new revelations ended with Jesus and the last living apostle”.

Who says so?

You appear to introduce a new gospel, of which Jesus never revealed.

How do I introduce anything new? I have referenced everything from the bible

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Reread the prophecy of Malachi 1:11 which Jesus brings to fulfillment in his new covenant by commanding his apostles to go out into all the world and baptise all nations and people and tongue, something the Old Covenant could never do.

The worship that Christ commands his church to obey in his blood and body sacrifice that every nation practiced since Jesus resurrection from the last supper these past 2000 years.

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

The reason Malachi makes the prophecy because the Old covenant could not be kept by God’s chosen. Thus you pretend to practice the old covenant Sabbath without a temple priest, without a temple where God’s name no longer exists? If you drive a car, light a fire not to mention the other 39 laws that apply on the Sabbath, doing one of these you profane the Sabbath. Thus all of the curses apply.

Richard Kastner;7788218]Malachai 10 is not a prophecy. Note v. 12 **But you behave profanely toward **me by thinking the LORD’S table and its offering may be polluted, and its food slighted.

This is the present tense. The Lord is talking about how Israel has acted in the past and is acting in the present time, ie. the time of Malachi. This is not talking of the future

.

Wrong;
What I am saying is “No one” is able to keep the law to which you subscribe to, mixing it with the New Covenant fulfillment. Jesus said you cannot put “New Wine into old wine skins”.

The new covenant is a new creation by God made anew in one day on the first day of the week. The new covenant people (Christians) have died to the law of the flesh by virtue of Jesus sacrament in baptism. The new covenant is of the eternal Spirit built on better promises which fulfilled the Old covenant law which is close to disappearing.

In summary those who reject Christ new covenant of the Spirit, and hold to the Old Covenant laws which apply to the flesh, and are judged by Moses not God. So if a Christian acts in mortal sin the law of the old covenant applies, but thank God for the ministry of reconciliation, that a Christian can confess his mortal sins and be forgiven by God, whereby according to the old covenant a death must occur to suffice breaking of the covenant.

God’s Word never ends, Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh. Taking Jesus yoke is much lighter than the yoke of the old covenant. If you think you can follow the letter of the Law and the prescriptions of the Sabbath laws apart from Jesus Christ, so be it, Moses the law giver will be your judge.

So, what you are saying is that the people of the new covenant are no longer bound by the laws that God spoke with His own mouth and wrote with His own finger in stone to signify it’s permanece. You are saying this is done away with, Right?

cont.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

cont.

You may have missed my thought here, when I referenced the “New Day” that Jesus has brought fulfilling the law and the prophets in the New Covenant, is the sign Trito Isaiah is alluding to regarding the survival of Jerusalem is to become the new exodus for the Diaspora Jews and Gentiles.

My thought here is “dealing” with a New Sabbath worship not a New Sabbath day. Isaiah 66:23 deals with a “NEW SABBATH” **not the old wine skins with the new wine (Life) Jesus provides. ** Please accept my apologies for the confusion.

Here’s v. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one **new **moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

I’m sorry but it doesn’t say that this is a “NEW SABBATH” it merely talks about the Sabbath. The same Sabbath that it talks about here.

God says so; see Hebrews 1:1-3, 1Tim.6:14, Titus 2:13…

Galatians 1: 6 **I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) for a different gospel **7 (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 **But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!
9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed! **11 Now I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel preached by me is not of human origin.
12 For I did not receive it from a human being, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

**Colosians 2; 16 Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 8
17 These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ. **

Besides all this God always revealed himself on the “Eighth” day “Sunday” both from Old covenant see Leviticus 9, and again Jesus God incarnate resurrected eternally on Sunday not the Sabbath, to which he fulfilled by laying His (our) flesh to (Sabbath) rest in the earth once and for all, only to resurrect it in a new eternal reality that supersedes the flesh of the old covenant. Because a “death” removes one from the law which convicts.

In conclusion so as not to derail the OP here, it is Love of God and Love of neighbor, “Love is God” which fulfills your old covenant law eternally. Without Love, the Sabbath means nothing but obedience and slavery to a Law no one can keep except Jesus himself, when he fulfilled the Sabbath law, when Jesus layed His flesh to rest on the Sabbath “once and for ALL”.

How do I introduce anything new? I have referenced everything from the bible

**These are the Other sheep proclaimed from here,all those who died to the law;
Galatians 2:19
For through the law I died to the law, 19 that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ;
20
yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.
21
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing. **

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Reread the prophecy of Malachi 1:11 which Jesus brings to fulfillment in his new covenant by commanding his apostles to go out into all the world and baptise all nations and people and tongue, something the Old Covenant could never do.

The worship that Christ commands his church to obey in his blood and body sacrifice that every nation practiced since Jesus resurrection from the last supper these past 2000 years.

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

The reason Malachi makes the prophecy because the Old covenant could not be kept by God’s chosen. Thus you pretend to practice the old covenant Sabbath without a temple priest, without a temple where God’s name no longer exists? If you drive a car, light a fire not to mention the other 39 laws that apply on the Sabbath, doing one of these you profane the Sabbath. Thus all of the curses apply.

Ok, I did reread this v. and it is a prophecy, but it has not yet been fulfilled. This makes reference to Matt.24:13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

And Rev.14:6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

This is a reference to the time just before Jesus return.

Wrong;
What I am saying is “No one” is able to keep the law to which you subscribe to, mixing it with the New Covenant fulfillment. Jesus said you cannot put “New Wine into old wine skins”.

Are you seriously contending that God gave us laws that we cannot keep? What would be the point of that?

The new covenant is a new creation by God made anew in one day on the first day of the week. The new covenant people (Christians) have died to the law of the flesh by virtue of Jesus sacrament in baptism. The new covenant is of the eternal Spirit built on better promises which fulfilled the Old covenant law which is close to disappearing.

So you are saying that God’s Sabbath commandment has been replaced by a commandment of men?

Consider this concerning the little horn in Dan. 7:25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and** think to change times and laws**: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

“Think to change times and laws”, the only law of the ten commandments concerning time is the Sabbath commandment.

In summary those who reject Christ new covenant of the Spirit, and hold to the Old Covenant laws which apply to the flesh, and are judged by Moses not God.

Are you saying that the Ten Commandments where given by Moses?

So if a Christian acts in mortal sin the law of the old covenant applies, but thank God for the ministry of reconciliation, that a Christian can confess his mortal sins and be forgiven by God, whereby according to the old covenant a death must occur to suffice breaking of the covenant.

This is all true but we certainly do not need a priest to do this.

God’s Word never ends,

Yet you are trying to tell me that His Sabbath commandment has come to an end

Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh. Taking Jesus yoke is much lighter than the yoke of the old covenant. If you think you can follow the letter of the Law and the prescriptions of the Sabbath laws apart from Jesus Christ, so be it, Moses the law giver will be your judge.

Here are the prescriptions of the Sabbath law.

Ex.20:8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Why would you think it so hard to keep this law? Moses did not give us the Ten Commandments and He will judge no person.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

cont.

You may have missed my thought here, when I referenced the “New Day” that Jesus has brought fulfilling the law and the prophets in the New Covenant, is the sign Trito Isaiah is alluding to regarding the survival of Jerusalem is to become the new exodus for the Diaspora Jews and Gentiles.

I’m afraid I don’t know what you are talking about here could you be more specific as to the vs. you are referencing?

My thought here is “dealing” with a New Sabbath worship not a New Sabbath day. Isaiah 66:23 deals with a “NEW SABBATH” **not the old wine skins with the new wine (Life) Jesus provides. ** Please accept my apologies for the confusion.

I’m afraid you have lost me completely here. You say “My thought here is “dealing” with a New Sabbath worship not a New Sabbath day.” Yet hasn’t the CC changed the day and what would this new Sabbath worship be?

Here’s v. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

I’m sorry but it doesn’t say that this is a “NEW SABBATH” it merely talks about the Sabbath. The same Sabbath that it talks about here.

God says so; see Hebrews 1:1-3, 1Tim.6:14, Titus 2:13…

Hebrews 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

1Tim.6
14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Titus2
13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Galatians 1: 6 **I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) for a different gospel **7 (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!
9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed! 11 Now I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel preached by me is not of human origin.
12 For I did not receive it from a human being, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

You may have some point you are trying to make with these, but I don’t know what it is.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Colosians 2; 16 Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 8
17 These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.

From the KJV

Col.2
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The sabbaths talked about here were cerimonial sabbaths (see Lev. 23:6–8, 15, 16, 21, 24, 25, 27, 28, 37, 38). This is brought out in v. 17 that says these sabbaths were “a shadow of things to come” The Sabbath of the ten commandments was a commemoration of the creaton.

Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
**11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. **

This is a reference back to Gen.2:2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Besides all this God always revealed himself on the “Eighth” day “Sunday” both from Old covenant see Leviticus 9, and again Jesus God incarnate resurrected eternally on Sunday not the Sabbath, to which he fulfilled by laying His (our) flesh to (Sabbath) rest in the earth once and for all, only to resurrect it in a new eternal reality that supersedes the flesh of the old covenant. Because a “death” removes one from the law which convicts.

There are only seven days in a week. Sunday is the first day. Again the Sabbath is a memorial of creation not the Resurrection.

In conclusion so as not to derail the OP here

My premise is that those that keep the Sunday as the Sabbath are the “other sheep”. So as far as I’m concerned we are right on the OP

it is Love of God and Love of neighbor, “Love is God” which fulfills your old covenant law eternally. Without Love, the Sabbath means nothing but obedience and slavery to a Law no one can keep except Jesus himself, when he fulfilled the Sabbath law, when Jesus layed His flesh to rest on the Sabbath “once and for ALL”.

I don’t understand Gab. Are you saying we can love God and love our neighbor and not keep the Ten Commandments?

**These are the Other sheep proclaimed from here,all those who died to the law;
Galatians 2:19
For through the law I died to the law, 19 that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ;
20
yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.
21
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing. **

What Paul is saying here is that through Christ he died to THE LAW AS A MEANS OF SALVATION. Of coarse this was never the case.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Richard Kastner;7792656]I’m afraid you have lost me completely here. You say “My thought here is “dealing” with a New Sabbath worship not a New Sabbath day.” Yet hasn’t the CC changed the day and what would this new Sabbath worship be?

Wrong, the CC has never changed the Sabbath day, you have been misinformed.

CCC 2175 states that “for Christians “ITS CEREMONIAL” observance replaces that of the Sabbath” (capitals mine). “In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ;”

The Old passover celebrants were all circumcised "are all SDAs circumcised? These celebrated the Jewish passover by “ceremonial observances” with unleavened bread and 4 cups of wine, followed by consuming a slain lamb. Do you practice this biblical passover law to the letter with shoes on your feet and your jackets on ready to leave at any moment? These are of the chosen flock, not the Other flock of Jesus.

The Other flock that Jesus is speaking to the chosen flock about are “Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, in which our life is blessed by Him and by His death” (St. Augustine).These are the Other sheep proclaimed from here, all those who died to the law;

St. Paul makes this clear when speaking and writing to Jesus “Other flock” the Colosians, from which Paul was a former member of this flock, who persecuted Jesus “Other flock”.

Now Paul’s contempary Jewish Christians are now forcing circumcision, sabbath ceremonial laws on Jesus “Other flock”, so much so that Paul commands the Colossians the following;

Colosians 2; 16 **Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 8
17 **These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ/**B]

Verse 16,17 supports the CCC.

Baptism are those of the Jesus Other flock who were freed from the law apart from the flock to whom the law was given and reject Jesus “to return to their formal ways”.(see John 6:66)

Galatians 2:19
For through the law I died to the law, 19 that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ;
20
yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.
21
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.

This “other flock” of Jesus always celebrated Jesus by communion, breaking of bread, and prayers as the Catholic Church continues to do today according to the prophecy of Malachi;

Acts 2:42
8 They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers.
43
Awe came upon everyone, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
44
All who believed were together and had all things in common;
45
they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one’s need.
46
**Every day they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area and to breaking bread in their homes. They ate their meals with exultation and sincerity of heart,
47
praising God and enjoying favor with all the people. And every day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved. **

Hebrews teaches that this “other flock” of Jesus is now to remain to her assembly as Catholics have done these past 2000 years since the resurrection; This gathering of the “other flock” is made distinct from the Jews who reject Jesus teachings and deny the “New Day” that has just dawned upon the “Other flock” of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:25
We should not stay away from our assembly, 13 as is the custom of some, but encourage one another, and this all the more as you see the day drawing near.

Peace be with you, and Happy “Sunday” resurrection Day, "For this is the DAY that the LORD has MADE.**

 

[babylonsfalling]

In John 10:16, Jesus states:
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Who do you say are the other sheep?

All unbelievers unto the ends of the earth, everyone from pagan Rome to American Indians, Chinese, Eskimo, etc.

 

[RebeccaJ]

In John 10:16, Jesus states:
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Who do you say are the other sheep?

And he asked them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter said to him in reply, “You are the Messiah.”

Jesus came in fulfillment of Hebrew scripture. The other sheep are all who say, “You are the Messiah”, but are not Jewish.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Wrong, the CC has never changed the Sabbath day, you have been misinformed.

CCC 2175 states that “for Christians “ITS CEREMONIAL” observance replaces that of the Sabbath” (capitals mine).

You say that I am "Wrong, the CC has never changed the Sabbath day, you have been misinformed. And then You cite CCC# 2175 above which states that "Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance REPLACES that of the sabbath. (CAPS ARE MINE) Would not replacing the observance of the Sabbath with that of the Sunday be exactly the same thing as changing the Sabbath?

“In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ;”

Well first of all Gab, there is no such thing as a Jewish Sabbath. Mark 2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The Sabbath was made for man not just the Jews.

The Old passover celebrants were all circumcised "are all SDAs circumcised? These celebrated the Jewish passover by “ceremonial observances” with unleavened bread and 4 cups of wine, followed by consuming a slain lamb. Do you practice this biblical passover law to the letter with shoes on your feet and your jackets on ready to leave at any moment?

We don’t have to. These are examples of “handwriting of ordinances” Col.2:14 that were nailed to the cross. The Ten Commandments have not been nailed to the cross.

These are of the chosen flock, not the Other flock of Jesus.

I don’t know what you mean here.

The Other flock that Jesus is speaking to the chosen flock about are

I’m going to assume you mean the ones Jesus is talking ABOUT in Jn.10:16

“Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, in which our life is blessed by Him and by His death” (St. Augustine).These are the Other sheep proclaimed from here, all those who died to the law;

So you are saying that St. Augustine changed the Lord’s holy day from the Sabbath to the Lord’s day. I thought you said it hadn’t been changed? BTW Mark 2:28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Says the Sabbath is the Lord’s day.

St. Paul makes this clear when speaking and writing to Jesus “Other flock” the Colosians, from which Paul was a former member of this flock, who persecuted Jesus “Other flock”.

Now Paul’s contempary Jewish Christians are now forcing circumcision, sabbath ceremonial laws on Jesus “Other flock”, so much so that Paul commands the Colossians the following;

Colosians 2; 16 **Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 8
17 **These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ/****B]

Verse 16,17 supports the CCC.

I have explained to you that what Paul is refering to in Col. is the " handwriting of ordinances" Col2:14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

These were NOT the Ten Commandments.

Baptism are those of the Jesus Other flock who were freed from the law apart from the flock to whom the law was given and reject Jesus “to return to their formal ways”.(see John 6:66)

Again I need this clarified.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Galatians 2:19
For through the law I died to the law, 19 that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ;
20
yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.
21
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.

Again what Paul is condemning here is trying to make THE LAW AS A MEANS OF SALVATION.

This “other flock” of Jesus always celebrated Jesus by communion, breaking of bread, and prayers as the Catholic Church continues to do today according to the prophecy of Malachi;

Acts 2:42
8 They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers.
43
Awe came upon everyone, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
44
All who believed were together and had all things in common;
45
they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one’s need.
46
**Every day they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area and to breaking bread in their homes. They ate their meals with exultation and sincerity of heart,
47
praising God and enjoying favor with all the people. And every day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved. **

This is all true, but irrelavant to the topic.

Hebrews teaches that this “other flock” of Jesus is now to remain to her assembly as Catholics have done these past 2000 years since the resurrection; This gathering of the “other flock” is made distinct from the Jews who reject Jesus teachings and deny the “New Day” that has just dawned upon the “Other flock” of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:25
We should not stay away from our assembly, 13 as is the custom of some, but encourage one another, and this all the more as you see the day drawing near.

Peace be with you, and Happy “Sunday” resurrection Day, "For this is the DAY that the LORD has MADE.

John 10:16,
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus states that the OTHER SHEEP " which are not of this fold" He is not only talking here exclusively of the Jews, but of all people that have not yet come to the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Nelka]

I had a mormon tell me once that the “other sheep” were the American Indians so after the resurrection, Jesus went to North and South America (rather than Ascend to His Father) to preach the good news. From what I understand, they still believe that.

I’ve always had a secret hope that He was talking about intelligent beings on other planets.

Nobody living on other planets.

 

[pablope]

Wrong, the CC has never changed the Sabbath day, you have been misinformed.

CCC 2175 states that “for Christians “ITS CEREMONIAL” observance replaces that of the Sabbath” (capitals mine). "In Christ’s Passover, Sunday

 

[pablope]

I’m afraid I don’t know what you are talking about here could you be more specific as to the vs. you are referencing?

[SIGN]I’m afraid you have lost me completely here. You say “My thought here is “dealing” with a New Sabbath worship not a New Sabbath day.” Yet hasn’t the CC changed the day and what would this new Sabbath worship be?

[/SIGN]
You may have some point you are trying to make with these, but I don’t know what it is.

Here is a jewish forum member’s perspective on the Sabbath:

[SIGN]How this became a discussion of the Sabbath I’m not sure. However, from a Jewish perspective, the Sabbath is and always was (despite the Pharisees which many Christians cite, and not the only Jewish sect at the time) a spiritual separation of the work week from the period of rest, and not merely a “legal” requirement. In fact, none of the 613 commandments are meant to be legalistic, even if some of them may seem trivial; and surely not those based on moral precepts. External practice does not necessarily negate internal spirituality in either Judaism or Catholicism; in fact, it can serve to reinforce spirituality. For example, one may see a beggar and have sympathetic feelings for his plight, yet do nothing. How does such behavior, or lack thereof, help the beggar? Surely praying for him is commendable, but also helping him through direct measures is just as important. Jesus himself would not–did not–approve of merely standing by without exercising compassion in the form of physical assistance. With respect to the Sabbath and all the other laws, it is similar. All the good intentions in the world may not be enough. One must take action: in the case of the Sabbath, by observance of it in the direct form of setting it apart from the rest of the week. “Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy” is not only a cognitive process, but a behavioral process as outlined by the Law. At the same time, the other commandments–such as keeping kosher, to take one example–are also not meant to be followed merely as a legalistic ritual; but rather, to sanctify ordinary tasks, such as the food we eat and the way that food is prepared, to make these otherwise mundane behaviors holy and not taken for granted. A final point: Jews are permitted to work on the Sabbath in case of need, the prime example being to save a human life. Indeed, any and all of the commandments may be broken in case of a life-or-death emergency since preservation of life always takes precedence above all else. All of the commandments were interpreted at the time as being divided into Loving G-d and Loving thy Neighbor (and Enemy), just as Jesus reiterated these words. [/SIGN]

Happy Easter, Richard. How are you doing? I heard you got sick, hope all is ok.

 

[SteveVH]

In John 10:16, Jesus states:
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Who do you say are the other sheep?

Just read through this thread, which seems to have turned from a question regarding “other sheep I have which are not of this fold” to a debate with SDA’s on the Sabbath. It appears that your OP is being derailed a bit.

As you can see Fly, the general consensus is that Christ was speaking of the Gentiles. What is the Mormon take on the “other sheep”?

 

[DaveBj]

Nobody living on other planets.

Oh, you’ve been to every one of them, and you know?



DaveBj

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Here is a jewish forum member’s perspective on the Sabbath:

[SIGN]How this became a discussion of the Sabbath I’m not sure. However, from a Jewish perspective, the Sabbath is and always was (despite the Pharisees which many Christians cite, and not the only Jewish sect at the time) a spiritual separation of the work week from the period of rest, and not merely a “legal” requirement. In fact, none of the 613 commandments are meant to be legalistic, even if some of them may seem trivial; and surely not those based on moral precepts. External practice does not necessarily negate internal spirituality in either Judaism or Catholicism; in fact, it can serve to reinforce spirituality. For example, one may see a beggar and have sympathetic feelings for his plight, yet do nothing. How does such behavior, or lack thereof, help the beggar? Surely praying for him is commendable, but also helping him through direct measures is just as important. Jesus himself would not–did not–approve of merely standing by without exercising compassion in the form of physical assistance. With respect to the Sabbath and all the other laws, it is similar. All the good intentions in the world may not be enough. One must take action: in the case of the Sabbath, by observance of it in the direct form of setting it apart from the rest of the week. “Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy” is not only a cognitive process, but a behavioral process as outlined by the Law. At the same time, the other commandments–such as keeping kosher, to take one example–are also not meant to be followed merely as a legalistic ritual; but rather, to sanctify ordinary tasks, such as the food we eat and the way that food is prepared, to make these otherwise mundane behaviors holy and not taken for granted. A final point: Jews are permitted to work on the Sabbath in case of need, the prime example being to save a human life. Indeed, any and all of the commandments may be broken in case of a life-or-death emergency since preservation of life always takes precedence above all else. All of the commandments were interpreted at the time as being divided into Loving G-d and Loving thy Neighbor (and Enemy), just as Jesus reiterated these words. [/SIGN]

Happy Easter, Richard. How are you doing? I heard you got sick, hope all is ok.

Hi pablope, Thank you for your concern. I think that I contracted a case of walking pneumonia, but I have made pretty much a full recovery. God is good. As for this answer by a Jewish forum member, I’m not sure what to do with it. Do you want me to answer it? Or is this like a comment?

 

[pablope]

Hi pablope, Thank you for your concern. I think that I contracted a case of walking pneumonia, but I have made pretty much a full recovery. God is good. As for this answer by a Jewish forum member, I’m not sure what to do with it. Do you want me to answer it? Or is this like a comment?

Hi, Richard…glad you are fully recovered…by the way, what is walking pneumonia? I have not heard it before.

And no, you do not need to comment, I just wanted to present the jewish take on it. You can take it to heart and learn from it, as you deem necessary.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Hi, Richard…glad you are fully recovered…by the way, what is walking pneumonia? I have not heard it before.

And no, you do not need to comment, I just wanted to present the jewish take on it. You can take it to heart and learn from it, as you deem necessary.

Walking pneumonia is simple a form of pneumonia that doesn’t knock you backwards into bed. That’s not to say it’s not serious, just not as.

 

[Nelka]

Oh, you’ve been to every one of them, and you know?



DaveBj

Of course.
It’s a boring job but somebody has to do it.

:yup: