The other three solas?

[mrs_abbott]

I know there are five solas but all I hear mentioned are sola scriptura and sola fide.
Are the other three not held as truth by most Protestants?
If I’m mistaken, please correct me but I just never hear sola gratia (grace), solus christus (Christ) or soli Deo gloria (glory to God) mentioned.
If Protestants hold these last three beliefs, please share. Also, if you believe in one sola, do you believe in all of them?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I know there are five solas but all I hear mentioned are sola scriptura and sola fide.
Are the other three not held as truth by most Protestants?
If I’m mistaken, please correct me but I just never hear sola gratia (grace), solus christus (Christ) or soli Deo gloria (glory to God) mentioned.
If Protestants hold these last three beliefs, please share. Also, if you believe in one sola, do you believe in all of them?

Hi,

I am in my own little world because I have never heard any of these terms until I came here.

I believe in One Christ, One God, Faith only and Im not sure about One Grace. I have not studied grace so I really cant make an educated comment on that. I could have taken a bible study on grace but I chose Daniel instead
What are the 5 anyway? Ithink Im missing one or two.

 

[Reformed1]

I know there are five solas but all I hear mentioned are sola scriptura and sola fide.
Are the other three not held as truth by most Protestants?
If I’m mistaken, please correct me but I just never hear sola gratia (grace), solus christus (Christ) or soli Deo gloria (glory to God) mentioned.
If Protestants hold these last three beliefs, please share. Also, if you believe in one sola, do you believe in all of them?

Good question. I know you guys believe in sola gratia and therefore there isn’t a whole lot to discuss there. Maybe you also agree on the other two you are asking about as well and therefore there isn’t much discussion.

 

[rpp]

Just gimmie that ol’ time religion. You know, the Nicene Creed.

 

[Abira]

solus christus or solo christo…

This is why many protestants have a hard time with Catholicism…why they sometimes believe that there is almost a worship of Saints and especially Mary…

being brought up protestant I never prayed to a dead person, or asked a dead person to intercede…Christ is the only mediator

I have never been to confession, I do not have a priest to mediate between me and God in a protestant church…

there is a general belief that many duties performed by a vicar are not special to his position as a priest…but that all people have a kind of priesthood and do not need a specific individual to intercede or act as a meditor…only Christ…

Even though I have never really seen the term used most conversations on the communion of saints and Marian devotions…relics etc hinge on this point.

 

[gracelife]

There is a lot to the solas, but in a nutshell. My understanding is that the solas work together not exclusively.

Ephesians 2:8-10 sums that working of the solas together.

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

So by God’s grace alone we are brought to faith (without works bringing about that initial faith). Faith alone, that is faith in Jesus’ death and resurrection for salvation (details in the Nicene Creed). Works to the extent that God works through us as Christians to do good works, not works to save. That is, good works come, but they are God’s working through us, not us doing them on our own for our salvation. Christ alone, because he provided the way through his death and resurrection.

Scripture alone … since the reformers rejected the magesterium, they had no other authority but the scriptures to guide them.

Other than scripture alone, where would Catholics disagree with was is above in green?

 

[Abira]

even being brought up protestant I am having trouble with the whole sola scriptura idea…

and currently the whole ‘by faith alone’ idea…

and sola gratia… I believe that we can use our free will that God gives us for good (not just always blaming evil on free will…we can attribute positive effects too) and by our actions make ourselves more worthy and basically ‘make an effort’… otherwise it would seem unfair that God gives unequal opportunities to people… we can make our own choices and opportunities.

VERSUS

although on the other side of the coin I am uncomfortable with the ‘glory’ accorded to certain Saints by Catholics. and so I support soli deo gloria (glory to God alone)

and uncomfortable with intercession in prayer with the dead so I support solus christus

 

[gracelife]

I think both sides need to come to an understanding what is meant when a Protestant uses the terms and what Catholics mean. Very often it is semantics and people are not understanding how the solas were defined in the first place.

 

[scylla]

There is a lot to the solas, but in a nutshell. My understanding is that the solas work together not exclusively.

Ephesians 2:8-10 sums that working of the solas together.

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

So by God’s grace alone we are brought to faith (without works bringing about that initial faith). Faith alone, that is faith in Jesus’ death and resurrection for salvation (details in the Nicene Creed). Works to the extent that God works through us as Christians to do good works, not works to save. That is, good works come, but they are God’s working through us, not us doing them on our own for our salvation. Christ alone, because he provided the way through his death and resurrection.

Scripture alone … since the reformers rejected the magesterium, they had no other authority but the scriptures to guide them.

Other than scripture alone, where would Catholics disagree with was is above in green?

Catholics would agree with Ephesians. The only way you can attack the Catholic position is to misrepresent it and essential be dishonest.

Since Catholics don’t believe they can earn their way to Heaven, as the common slander reports it was more a way of trying to illustrate a reliance on God which supposedly Catholics do not have.
Every attack on the Catholic Church is based on either a lie or taking a Catholic belief, misrepresenting it and attacking that.

This is one of the main points of the Sola’s primarily to emphasize a distinction and then to attack Catholic belief.

Catholics can affirm them, if they are understood correctly. except for the Sola Scriptura which is logically inconsistant and Sola Fide which is inadequate as a phrase as it contradicts the Bible directly and is frequently misunderstood.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Abira]

I think both sides need to come to an understanding what is meant when a Protestant uses the terms and what Catholics mean. Very often it is semantics and people are not understanding how the solas were defined in the first place.

I can offer up a simple solution to that point:

everyone should understand and use them in the way the protestants define them.

lol I know that sounds kinda one sided…but they were created and defined by the protestant movement during the reformation…almost as a manifesto to sum up the basic beliefs…and to make connections and distinctions from the Catholic church.

 

[scylla]

although on the other side of the coin I am uncomfortable with the ‘glory’ accorded to certain Saints by Catholics. and so I support soli deo gloria (glory to God alone)

and uncomfortable with intercession in prayer with the dead so I support solus christus

I would support sola Deo Gloria as it is true and all Catholics affirm it. Since no Catholic worships saints then it is not a problem as we are encouraged to love one another. Having love and even honoring someone just is seeing God in others.
To attack that is to misrepresent Catholic belief by attributing worship to actions of honor, without acknowledging what is true worship. To be consistant would be to ignore everyone except God and not love anyone else except God not even our kids. Which is why the Catholic position is the only consistant one.

And Catholics also believe salvation is through Christ Alone. So to attack that would take another misrepresentation of Catholic belief.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Abira]

I would support sola Deo Gloria as it is true and all Catholics affirm it. Since no Catholic worships saints then it is not a problem as we are encouraged to love one another. Having love and even honoring someone just is seeing God in others.
To attack that is to misrepresent Catholic belief by attributing worship to actions of honor, without acknowledging what is true worship. To be consistant would be to ignore everyone except God and not love anyone else except God not even our kids. Which is why the Catholic position is the only consistant one.

And Catholics also believe salvation is through Christ Alone. So to attack that would take another misrepresentation of Catholic belief.

In Christ
Scylla

ok, please don’t use the word ‘attack’ as I’m just giving a different view here…

I have come to know that Catholics do not worship saints…but they do attribute more glory to them then protestants feel comfortable with

Christ alone…this also refers to the position of the priest… protestants do not feel a need for confession through a priest…they just pray. they do not generally ask saints to intercede either… they just pray direct… both Catholics and protestants agree that all salvation is through Christ. It refers more to how we communicate with God.

also… even though we live nowadays… and I know this is a Catholic site etc etc… in the days of the reformation the Catholic church made some mistakes… the wealth of the church made the reformers uncomfortable…some of the corruption in some of the clergy…selling indulgences and such. I do not believe that these reformers are liars, misinterpreting and attacking scripture in some perverse way. I believe that they did whjat they truly believed was right at the time…and the Catholic church of today that you are a part of maybe would not have prompted such action.

Take care, S x

 

[gracelife]

Catholics would agree with Ephesians. The only way you can attack the Catholic position is to misrepresent it and essential be dishonest.

Since Catholics don’t believe they can earn their way to Heaven, as the common slander reports it was more a way of trying to illustrate a reliance on God which supposedly Catholics do not have.
Every attack on the Catholic Church is based on either a lie or taking a Catholic belief, misrepresenting it and attacking that.

This is one of the main points of the Sola’s primarily to emphasize a distinction and then to attack Catholic belief.

Catholics can affirm them, if they are understood correctly. except for the Sola Scriptura which is logically inconsistant and Sola Fide which is inadequate as a phrase as it contradicts the Bible directly and is frequently misunderstood.

In Christ
Scylla

Scylla, I’m not here to attack the Catholic position. I was simply articulating the Protestant understanding of the solas.

I said nothing about earning one’s way to heaven.
I did not attack or lie or misrepresent the Catholic position.

Like the Solas, the terms Mediatrix of All Graces and Co-Redemptrix are frequently misunderstood as well.

The proper understanding of sola fide should not be in conflict with Catholic theology.

Sola fide properly understood does not deny grace or works. So if defined properly where is the conflict with Catholicism?

sola fide in context: Faith in Jesus’ atoning sacrifice on the cross. Faith comes through God’s grace. Faith working in love through God working through us.

If that is the proper understanding of sola fide in context, would Catholics agree?

Many Protestants would agree sola fide (without grace) is heresy.

Protestants believe works follow a living faith. All 3 (faith, grace & works) work together. Is that not the Catholic position as well?

 

[scylla]

As those were never true teachings of the Church and still are not, then the Protestants who broke away broke away not for truth but because of error.

Feel free to PM me if you would like to talk about this but I would suggest that no Protestant has an honest objection to the Catholic Church. Of course to Catholics they can have plenty of objections as we all can bother others, be rude and scandalize.

All men are liars and I am pretty sure those guys were no different, reading their writings confirms this to me as I find very little honesty in Luthers writings, and his attacks are based upon misrepresentation and dishonesty.
Very few people would claim he is a saint.

Of course the clergy of the Catholic Church in that time, many were horrible but that doesn’t change the truth of Christ. so they had no honest reason to leave.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[scylla]

Scylla, I’m not here to attack the Catholic position. I was simply articulating the Protestant understanding of the solas.

I said nothing about earning one’s way to heaven.
I did not attack or lie or misrepresent the Catholic position.

Like the Solas, the terms Mediatrix of All Graces and Co-Redemptrix are frequently misunderstood as well.

The proper understanding of sola fide should not be in conflict with Catholic theology.

Sola fide properly understood does not deny grace or works. So if defined properly where is the conflict with Catholicism?

sola fide in context: Faith in Jesus’ atoning sacrifice on the cross. Faith comes through God’s grace. Faith working in love through God working through us.

If that is the proper understanding of sola fide in context, would Catholics agree?

Many Protestants would agree sola fide (without grace) is heresy.

Protestants believe works follow a living faith. All 3 (faith, grace & works) work together. Is that not the Catholic position as well?

where would Catholics disagree with was is above in green?

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by that particular line/

If you did not mean that Catholics somehow disagree with Scripture and Faith working through love then I must have misunderstood that particular statement.

I would agree that we can accept Sola Fide in that understanding, then we should throw it out as it is inadequate and contradicts the Biblical meaning of Faith Alone as James stated.
Faith working through love is Biblical though not as catchy and easy to remember. Just because it is a popular slogan doesn’t make it an adequate one.

In Christ
Scylla

I would agree that there would be no conflict and the non-catholics are always welcome to come back to the Church.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Since Catholics don’t believe they can earn their way to Heaven, as the common slander reports it was more a way of trying to illustrate a reliance on God which supposedly Catholics do not have.

Hi, I think the problem(for me anyway)is that every time I speak with a catholic, they come out with something essentially saying they do have to earn there way into heaven. So, if this is not what the CC believes or teaches, then where on earth are these catholics coming up with this stuff. Ill give you an example. Back in July I was asking my husband if it would be ok to be the coordinator of a homeless ministry in my church. His response was yeah because if you do it you will earn some points towards getting into heaven and I will earn some points for letting you do it. He said of course you will earn more points then me. When I explained to him that is not how it works he was offended. Needless to say I dont bring it up anymore. He went to catholic school and to church every Sunday till he was 18.

Every attack on the Catholic Church is based on either a lie or taking a Catholic belief, misrepresenting it and attacking that.

I really think it is the average joe catholic misrepresenting the CC church to us protestants. I have learned so much on these forums. When I talk to catholics around town none of them are like you guys on this forum. I just went to a new eye doctor tonight and she asked me if I was on the computer alot and I told her I am on a catholic forum alot and she asked me what church I went to and I did the same. We started talking and she said she believed in some stuff the CC taught but some stuff was outlandish. This was with me only saying that unfortunately there is a rift between protestants and catholics. The only thing I can think of is that the CC’s in my area do a lousy job at teaching their youth and then they grow up and misrepresent the church.
I know a catholic that believes in reincarnation I said to her that the CC does not teach that. Her reply was the CC is a bunch of whooey, but yet she still wants her children to marry someone catholic. I asked her why if she doesnt completely believe in the CC or the bible I found out. She said because she still has fear that something will happen to her kids if they dont marry a catholic. She went to catholic school. Again, this was in my area. Where do you think these people are getting this info.? That is probably why we think you guys believe you have to earn your way into heaven because catholics are telling us.

This of course is just my experience.

 

[Abira]

The proper understanding of sola fide should not be in conflict with Catholic theology.

Sola fide properly understood does not deny grace or works. So if defined properly where is the conflict with Catholicism?

Protestants believe works follow a living faith. All 3 (faith, grace & works) work together. Is that not the Catholic position as well?

ok…sola fide has nothing to do with grace… that would be sola gratia

Protestants believe that (in order):

1. we believe
2. we are saved
3. this produces good works.

Catholics believe (in order):

1. We believe
2. We must d good works
3. These two things give us our salvation

It seems such a small difference but it’s massive really. I do not believe the protestant posiion on this.

Scylla,

I’m afraid I can’t really have a dialogue with you about this… I personally have been honest about my position… how even as a protestant I have problems with their teaching…and yet have difficulties with Catholic teaching also.

I find it hard to see how you can place yourself in a position of such harsh judgement above those reformers. It is not your place…and even though I respect your position the reason there is little dialogue…and much misunderstanding of sola/positions… is because of similar attitudes. I would be able to learn more from you if you didn’t state your case using such harsh language and ungiving statements. I know you feel strongly and have a defined position and I respect that, but don’t judge another position so harshly.

Take care of yourself,

S x

 

[scylla]

Of course you will find people who call themselves Catholic and say things that are contrary to the faith.

Millions of people call themselves Catholic and heck have even gone to Catholic School but if they don’t believe and have not learned anything then they are about as reliable as Jack Chick.

God Bless gotta go
Scylla

 

[Abira]

wait that came out messily lol…

basically it’s hard to be honest and open up when you feel judged… it’s like I now have to protect myself…and the open dialogue between positions is restricted because of that.

 

[gracelife]

ok…sola fide has nothing to do with grace… that would be sola gratia

S x

We don’t have faith without God’s grace giving us faith.

Ephesians2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

As a protestant I would say:

1. receive grace
2. to believe (faith)
3. God works in us to do good works

note for #3
10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

A living saving faith produces good works. A dead faith does not produce works.