The other three solas?

[Abira]

hi grace… i agree with your statements…however the five solas deal with these issues seperately…so that it doesn’t get too coplicated…and I think it’s easier to do the same.

sola fide…the whle faith works thing mentioned…

sola gratia…grace is an unearned gift (protestant)
against te slightly different Catholic idea that
by our works we can almost open ourselves
to further grace by co-operating with Gods given
grace through actions.

these are not my views…they are statements given to differentiate between the reformed church and the standard Catholic church of the day.

 

[Abira]

both catholic and protestants agree that only god can give grace… protestants…or the reformers, did not believe that people could have any influence at all on grace in the way that a Catholic would.

 

[gracelife]

both catholic and protestants agree that only god can give grace… protestants…or the reformers, did not believe that people could have any influence at all on grace in the way that a Catholic would.

So the difference then is in how we get grace.

I have to ask then from the Catholic understanding:
How can people influence grace? By doing works? How would one know when they’ve done enough works to get enough grace? How much grace is enough?

---

Just clarifying … the solas ala Lutheranism.

A Lutheran would say:
Salvation is **by grace alone **
through faith alone
in Jesus Christ alone.
(a living faith has works).

 

[Abira]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_solas

it’s simply laid out and objective lol… some good links to the different views from different denominations.

 

[Abira]

i’m not Catholic…so we’ll have to wait for a Catholic response I guess lol… I don’t fully understand that part either

 

[gracelife]

Leave it to Wikipedia. Is there anything they don’t have info on? lol

 

[Abira]

lol not that I’ve tested the theory yet though lol

 

[mrs_abbott]

That is probably why we think you guys believe you have to earn your way into heaven because catholics are telling us.

This of course is just my experience.

Well, I went to Catholic school for 12 years and I was taught that we had to have faith and good works to EARN your way into Heaven.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Well, I went to Catholic school for 12 years and I was taught that we had to have faith and good works to EARN your way into Heaven.

Hi,
So the CC does teach that It is so confusing for me because we have catholics here that say that is not true and then you say your school taught that and I bettcha my husband’s school did too otherwise where would he get it from.
I dont know what to think.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Hi,
So the CC does teach that It is so confusing for me because we have catholics here that say that is not true and then you say your school taught that and I bettcha my husband’s school did too otherwise where would he get it from.
I dont know what to think.

Your husband was probably taught by nuns the way I was so yes, we were probably taught the same thing.
I think they need to make it clear when instructing folks, especially since it tends to cause massive amounts of confusion like this.

 

[Melchior]

A Lutheran would say:
Salvation is **by grace alone **
through faith alone
in Jesus Christ alone.
(a living faith has works).

You missed one:

Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone tohe Glory of God alone.

These always go together in classical protestantism whether Lutheran, Reformed or the original Baptists. So when people start tossing around fatih alone as a epithet they should understand that the 5 solas go together. None stand alone.

I would think any faithful Catholic could fully affirm this rewording of it. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone to the Glory of God alone.

In fact protestants should be happy with this formula if they took 5 minutes to think about it.

All Chirstians slogan is “Christ alone” is our salvation.

 

[mrs_abbott]

You missed one:

Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone to the Glory of God alone.

These always go together in classical protestantism whether Lutheran, Reformed or the original Baptists. So when people start tossing around fatih alone as a epithet they should understand that the 5 solas go together. None stand alone.

I would think any faithful Catholic could fully affirm this rewording of it. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone to the Glory of God alone.

In fact protestants should be happy with this formula if they took 5 minutes to think about it.

All Chirstians slogan is “Christ alone” is our salvation.

That’s cleverly worded. I’ve never heard of that.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Your husband was probably taught by nuns the way I was so yes, we were probably taught the same thing.
I think they need to make it clear when instructing folks, especially since it tends to cause massive amounts of confusion like this.

Hi,

I dont know if he was taught by nuns. I agree with the rest.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

You missed one:

Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone tohe Glory of God alone.

These always go together in classical protestantism whether Lutheran, Reformed or the original Baptists. So when people start tossing around fatih alone as a epithet they should understand that the 5 solas go together. None stand alone.

I would think any faithful Catholic could fully affirm this rewording of it. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone to the Glory of God alone.

In fact protestants should be happy with this formula if they took 5 minutes to think about it.

All Chirstians slogan is “Christ alone” is our salvation.

This protestant agrees 100%

 

[rpp]

You missed one:

Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone tohe Glory of God alone.

These always go together in classical protestantism whether Lutheran, Reformed or the original Baptists. So when people start tossing around fatih alone as a epithet they should understand that the 5 solas go together. None stand alone.

I would think any faithful Catholic could fully affirm this rewording of it. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone to the Glory of God alone.

In fact protestants should be happy with this formula if they took 5 minutes to think about it.

All Chirstians slogan is “Christ alone” is our salvation.

This Catholic disagrees with this.

Baptism, be it the actual Baptism, Baptism of Desire (one who through no fault of their own is not baptized before death) or Baptism by Blood (an unbaptized martyr) is a requirement for salvation.

Confession is required for the forgiveness of those sins committed after Baptism. (Sins can be forgiven if a person is truly contrite and unable to go to confession before death.)

The above formula makes no sense in the following situation:
A man as a youth truly believes and with the above formula, is saved. Later this man grow up. Slowly he reject Christian morality and eventually live a completly degerate life, committing grave and gross sins. Then he dies in this state with no sense of contrition for his sins. According do the above formula, he immediatly does into the presence of God because he was saved. That is not logical if God is just.

 

[Melchior]

This Catholic disagrees with this.

Baptism, be it the actual Baptism, Baptism of Desire (one who through no fault of their own is not baptized before death) or Baptism by Blood (an unbaptized martyr) is a requirement for salvation.

Confession is required for the forgiveness of those sins committed after Baptism. (Sins can be forgiven if a person is truly contrite and unable to go to confession before death.)

The above formula makes no sense in the following situation:
A man as a youth truly believes and with the above formula, is saved. Later this man grow up. Slowly he reject Christian morality and eventually live a completly degerate life, committing grave and gross sins. Then he dies in this state with no sense of contrition for his sins. According do the above formula, he immediatly does into the presence of God because he was saved. That is not logical if God is just.

I would assume “grace alone” would imply the grace received in the Sacraments (means of Grace) to the Catholic mind. That is certainly what I meant.

Does that make it more viable in your mind? It is certainly not comprehensive, just a simple formula for the same of common ground discussion. An outline type starting point.

Mel

 

[st_ignatius110]

but they do attribute more glory to them then protestants feel comfortable with

Perhaps the word honor would be better used here?

 

[Abira]

glory/honour… it’s just words really…what some catholics view as honour protestants feel us glorification… especially statues and relics etc.

we mean the same thing, but the word glory would be how a protestant viewed this (if it is me you’re quoting…it looks like something i’d say lol)

 

[rpp]

I would assume “grace alone” would imply the grace received in the Sacraments (means of Grace) to the Catholic mind. That is certainly what I meant.

Does that make it more viable in your mind? It is certainly not comprehensive, just a simple formula for the same of common ground discussion. An outline type starting point.

Mel

I do not believe that is sufficiant. Baptism is critical. The sacraments are not arbitrary things some people came up with because they thought the ritual would help people receive God’s grace. No. Specific Sacraments bring specific graces. Baptism cleanses us from Original Sin. Confirmation completes Christian initiation and bring the Holy Spirit. These are examples of indelible sacraments. They can never be repeated. A protestant who converts to the Catholic Church is not re-babptised, the Protestant baptism (provided it is a Trinitarian Baptism) is recognized as valid. Other sacraments bring other graces.

It is important to note that Catholic teaching holds that God brings His Grace through the Sacraments. As a consequence, the Sacraments are not representative of anything but are, in fact, the real thing; the real channel of God’s Grace. Thus they are essential for salvation.

Not all Sacraments are required for Salvation, Baptism, Confirmation, Confession are the three needed for salvation. Extreme Unction (aka Last Rites or Annointing of the Sick) is greatly beneficial for those near death.

Holy Communion, The Eucharist, is in a category by itself. Known as the Blessed Sacrament, it is approached by faithful and serious Catholics with a sense of awe, wonder and the most profound reverance.

The others two, Holy Orders (priestly ordination) and Holy Matrimony are not required for salvation, but bring God’s grace to those being either ordained or married. Both place an indelible mark on the soul and cannot be repeated. (Holy Matrimony can but only if there was a defect with the previous attempt at marriage or one of the previous spouses is dead.)

 

[Melchior]

I do not believe that is sufficiant. Baptism is critical. The sacraments are not arbitrary things some people came up with because they thought the ritual would help people receive God’s grace. No. Specific Sacraments bring specific graces. Baptism cleanses us from Original Sin. Confirmation completes Christian initiation and bring the Holy Spirit. These are examples of indelible sacraments. They can never be repeated. A protestant who converts to the Catholic Church is not re-babptised, the Protestant baptism (provided it is a Trinitarian Baptism) is recognized as valid. Other sacraments bring other graces.

It is important to note that Catholic teaching holds that God brings His Grace through the Sacraments. As a consequence, the Sacraments are not representative of anything but are, in fact, the real thing; the real channel of God’s Grace. Thus they are essential for salvation.

Not all Sacraments are required for Salvation, Baptism, Confirmation, Confession are the three needed for salvation. Extreme Unction (aka Last Rites or Annointing of the Sick) is greatly beneficial for those near death.

Holy Communion, The Eucharist, is in a category by itself. Known as the Blessed Sacrament, it is approached by faithful and serious Catholics with a sense of awe, wonder and the most profound reverance.

The others two, Holy Orders (priestly ordination) and Holy Matrimony are not required for salvation, but bring God’s grace to those being either ordained or married. Both place an indelible mark on the soul and cannot be repeated. (Holy Matrimony can but only if there was a defect with the previous attempt at marriage or one of the previous spouses is dead.)

You are missing the point. You are arguing that an outline is wrong because it is not the essay. The grace of baptism is essential. Just as the Protestant has to explain what the solas mean. So would this formula need explanation and expansion. Grace is essential in it. Baptism is essential and it is a means of Grace. An essential means of grace.

All points need definition. But with the proper definition I think it is easily Catholic. At least the way I meant it.