The other three solas?

[ALLFORHIM]

I do not believe that is sufficiant. Baptism is critical. The sacraments are not arbitrary things some people came up with because they thought the ritual would help people receive God’s grace. No. Specific Sacraments bring specific graces. Baptism cleanses us from Original Sin. Confirmation completes Christian initiation and bring the Holy Spirit. These are examples of indelible sacraments. They can never be repeated. A protestant who converts to the Catholic Church is not re-babptised, the Protestant baptism (provided it is a Trinitarian Baptism) is recognized as valid. Other sacraments bring other graces.

It is important to note that Catholic teaching holds that God brings His Grace through the Sacraments. As a consequence, the Sacraments are not representative of anything but are, in fact, the real thing; the real channel of God’s Grace. Thus they are essential for salvation.

Not all Sacraments are required for Salvation, Baptism, Confirmation, Confession are the three needed for salvation. Extreme Unction (aka Last Rites or Annointing of the Sick) is greatly beneficial for those near death.

Holy Communion, The Eucharist, is in a category by itself. Known as the Blessed Sacrament, it is approached by faithful and serious Catholics with a sense of awe, wonder and the most profound reverance.

The others two, Holy Orders (priestly ordination) and Holy Matrimony are not required for salvation, but bring God’s grace to those being either ordained or married. Both place an indelible mark on the soul and cannot be repeated. (Holy Matrimony can but only if there was a defect with the previous attempt at marriage or one of the previous spouses is dead.)

Hi,

I am having a hard time understaning the whole receiving grace by receiving the sacrements. I m wondering where Jesus tells us that we receive grace when we receive the sacrements. I understand where the CC gets the belief about baptism. Although I have never seen baptism associated with grace. I cannot seem to find any connection between the sacrements and receiving grace in the bible. I guess that is why I cant believe what the CC says about sacrements being needed for salvation or receiving graces as you receive the sacrement. Maybe that is where sacred tradition comes in to explain it.
Besides baptism and eucharist, are there any scripture references that you could point me to that prove what you say about the sacrements?

Thank you, Im trying to understand this better.

 

[rpp]

Hi,

I am having a hard time understaning the whole receiving grace by receiving the sacrements. I m wondering where Jesus tells us that we receive grace when we receive the sacrements. I understand where the CC gets the belief about baptism. Although I have never seen baptism associated with grace. I cannot seem to find any connection between the sacrements and receiving grace in the bible. I guess that is why I cant believe what the CC says about sacrements being needed for salvation or receiving graces as you receive the sacrement. Maybe that is where sacred tradition comes in to explain it.
Besides baptism and eucharist, are there any scripture references that you could point me to that prove what you say about the sacrements?

Thank you, Im trying to understand this better.

I think this is where some of the weaknesses of Sola Scriptura are most obvious. While there is certainly a scriptural basis for all the sacraments, the manner in which most are practiced is based on the traditions handed down from the Apostles via Sacred Tradition.

Sacred Tradition is important because for the first 150 to 200 years, the Bible as we know it did not exist. There were many writings circulating about, but how could one study it. Secondaly, there were precious few good quality copies available. So it was Tradition that helped the early Christians learn and pass on the faith.

I think 1,500 and 2,000 years of history has telescoped the view of Reformation and modern Christians. Sola Scriptura would have been quickly rejected by any early Christians simply because they lacked one somewhat important ingrediant; the Scritura part.

While I do not normally like to introduce diversions, I would like to point you to a document here are CA that talks about this issue. “The Complex Relationship Between Scripture and Tradition” catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510bt.asp

Meanwhile, back on topic… Scriptural support of the Sacraments.

I will quickly admist this is not my strongest area. So rather then chase down Scripture references, I hope you will permit me to lik you to articles that can explain this better than I ever could.
ewtn.com/expert/answers/sacraments_in_scripture.htm
catholic.com/library/sacraments.asp (this is a list of topics)
newadvent.org/cathen/13295a.htm From the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Finally, if you are up to it, here is an excellent book, Sacraments in Scripture by Dr. Tim Gray and Dr. Scott Hahn amazon.com/Sacraments-Scripture-Tim-Gray/dp/1931018049

By the way, thank you for keeping this conversation rather civil and polite!

 

[rpp]

One other thing that I will add.

I think one of the difficulties many people have with Catholic theology and beliefs is that they appear rather complex.

This is true, there is much complexity, but that is because there is so much variety in people and our fallen nature.

Simple theology has great appeal. “Believe this and that is all you need.” This is very tempting when compared to “Believe this, show it by doing that. And this other thing. And this thing over here. Oh, and do not do that. And remember this. Never forget that. And most importantly…”. Whilch, I confess, is what Catholic theology seemed to me.

At first.

Then I studied it more carefully. I began to realize that Catholic theology was absolutely consistent with all forms of reason and logic. (As a former atheist, this was both surprising and very important for me.) In fact, I describe Catholic Theology, especially that as described by St. Thomas Aquinas, as utterly astonishing in its logical consistency **and **its completeness. Personally, view this both as another proof of God and proof of the Truth of the Catholic Church.

The only problems I see is when liberal or modernist theologians (e.g. Kung or Baum) try to change something. Then things stop fitting together so nicely. Go back to St. Thomas, and it all works again.

 

[Melchior]

Hi,

I am having a hard time understaning the whole receiving grace by receiving the sacrements. I m wondering where Jesus tells us that we receive grace when we receive the sacrements. I understand where the CC gets the belief about baptism. Although I have never seen baptism associated with grace. I cannot seem to find any connection between the sacrements and receiving grace in the bible. I guess that is why I cant believe what the CC says about sacrements being needed for salvation or receiving graces as you receive the sacrement. Maybe that is where sacred tradition comes in to explain it.
Besides baptism and eucharist, are there any scripture references that you could point me to that prove what you say about the sacrements?

Thank you, Im trying to understand this better.

I will show you *in scripture *tomorrow. Sorry I have to run!

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I think this is where some of the weaknesses of Sola Scriptura are most obvious. While there is certainly a scriptural basis for all the sacraments, the manner in which most are practiced is based on the traditions handed down from the Apostles via Sacred Tradition.

Sacred Tradition is important because for the first 150 to 200 years, the Bible as we know it did not exist. There were many writings circulating about, but how could one study it. Secondaly, there were precious few good quality copies available. So it was Tradition that helped the early Christians learn and pass on the faith.

I think 1,500 and 2,000 years of history has telescoped the view of Reformation and modern Christians. Sola Scriptura would have been quickly rejected by any early Christians simply because they lacked one somewhat important ingrediant; the Scritura part.

While I do not normally like to introduce diversions, I would like to point you to a document here are CA that talks about this issue. “The Complex Relationship Between Scripture and Tradition” catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510bt.asp

Meanwhile, back on topic… Scriptural support of the Sacraments.

I will quickly admist this is not my strongest area. So rather then chase down Scripture references, I hope you will permit me to lik you to articles that can explain this better than I ever could.
ewtn.com/expert/answers/sacraments_in_scripture.htm
catholic.com/library/sacraments.asp (this is a list of topics)
newadvent.org/cathen/13295a.htm From the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Finally, if you are up to it, here is an excellent book, Sacraments in Scripture by Dr. Tim Gray and Dr. Scott Hahn amazon.com/Sacraments-Scripture-Tim-Gray/dp/1931018049

By the way, thank you for keeping this conversation rather civil and polite!

Hi,

Thank you for the response. I will read the links when I get a chance. Im not up for eading the book you mentioned. I struggle enough with the bible study Im in. I dont mind links because I understand when the subject is not your strongest. I run across this much as well. Thank you again

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I will show you *in scripture *tomorrow. Sorry I have to run!

Hi,

Thank you that would be much appreciated. I guess Im looking for Scripture to link grace that is added to us for following the sacrements.