The Ottaviani Intervention

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Dear OSMOND

I fear you have sensibilities too sensitive; you are on a forum attempting to engage in discussion & debate. I would also suggest you look up the word ‘hyperbole’.

You may state I AM WRONG and feel offended but that really doesn’t ‘cut the mustard’. The current Pope himself referred to the Novus Ordo as “BANAL”.

I state that the Novus Ordo is a ‘sibling’ to the horrors & stupidity we have seen in our ‘formerly’ great Catholic institutions. I can not give specifics here & now–(I am sure others can)–but in recent decades unthinkable lectures which violate the church’s teaching have been allowed; liberal groups & thinking which violate the principles of our Church have even been encouraged. Did not the Pope on his recent visit attempt to address this with a gathering of Catholic University Presidents?

Look at our latest versions of the Bible. Once again, instead of appealing to the best in our society, we—in a very liberal manner—dumb-down the wording until some of it sounds like one is reading a newspaper article. Some of it seems that it has been reworded, not to reflect the wonderful glory of God as revealed in Scripture, but to appeal to functional illiterates. Take a look at our current Psalm 23 and compare it to the King James version. What inspires the heart & soul more??? As a respectful act to the dead, I always collect the small ‘memorial cards’ which are placed near the guest book. EVERY CATHOLIC wake which I have gone to has used the King James version for the 23rd Psalm. It seems that those in grief are concerned with reverant words for their loved one.

WHAT’S next----a movement to remove the word ROMAN from the name of our Church? We already, for all intents & purposes removed our liturgical language.

I’ll be happy to bring my ‘SAX’ to your next Mass; it may liven-up the crowd. If this offends you-----TOO BAD!
 
Please. The Council of Trent merely codified the Mass. The whole point of the exercise was to conform the various different rites (or disciplines or whatever), into one, uniform, universal Mass. It didn’t change things for most people. The different rites or ways of saying Mass before the Council would have closely resembled the Mass as codified by Trent.

Any changes since the Council of Trent, until '69, were very minor, ORGANIC, changes.

Can anyone here say that the NO Mass was an organic development of the old Mass, whilst keeping a straight face??? I think not!
Correct. There were too many “versions” of the Mass, so Trent codified the Mass as you say.

Now, the NO was introduced, and look at what has happened. We are right back to the pre Trent problem, except then it varied region to region or village to village. Today, one can go to ten parishes in the same city and see several versions of the Ordinary Form.

On paper, there is an Ordinary Form, but in reality, there are many Ordinary Forms, each parish doing it “their way”.

It’s absurd.
 
I am one of those people who has seen the NO reverently said in english and in Latin. That is in the London Oratory.

I have seen the old rite celebrated with reverence, and never have seen it without. My opinion is that if the old rite was celebrated without reverence before the council and in the days leading up to the NO it is for that reason that God took the old rite away.

So do I have any problems with the NO celebrated reverently.

Well for starters the errors in translation from the Latin to the english are bad. Et cum spiritu tuo —>> and also with you??? lol
Many —>> all.

Lord I am not worthy that thou should enter under my roof (SCRIPTURAL) -->> Lord I am not worth to receive you. Again makes criticisms that the old rite didnt have eneogh scripture invalid.

Thats the language issue.

The rest is the sign of peace before communion (gonna get moved :)). As for the most major loss in the NO is the lack of silence. Every Catholic should know when Jesus has just come onto the altar so now is the time for silent prayer, awe and adoration.

Its basic respect. If monasteries can have a rule of nearly continual silence so can Catholics attending Mass have a few minutes silence around the time of the consecration.

However I do not have a problem agreeing with the Ottaviani intervention. Specifically the removal of the clasping of the canonical fingers paving the way for Communion in the hand.

Paul
 
A request from someone who is not at all computer literate:

On U-Tube there is a wonderful short video entitled:
“It’s time for the real Catholic Church to Come Forward”

It is so very SAD yet illustrates the essence of much of what we are debating. The first half has photos of ‘LUNATIC’ Catholic expressions of the Holy Mass. The 2nd half contrasts the sacerdotal SACRED nature of the Tridentine Rite.

Can someone provide a LINK or URL connection to this for us; I cannot. This one short work is worth 10,000 words on the subject!

THANKS:thumbsup:
 
Yes, the pope is a serious theolgian and you can’t ignore him. I am not sure why you refered to the pope.
I referred to the Pope because he gets the last say in all matters of discipline, of which the form of the Mass is.
 
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