The Our Father-- A Perfect Prayer?

[CatholicPhD]

We believe that the “Our Father” is a perfect prayer-- given directly to us by Jesus. However, the last times I’ve said the prayer, I can’t get this out of my head.

Couldn’t the whole prayer be summed up in four words: “Thy will be done”? Why ask for “daily bread” or to “deliver us from evil”? Would this (and virtually all supplication prayers) not be encompassed by “Thy will be done”?

To a lesser extent, I understand the inclusion of “Forgive us our trespasses”, as this is a prayer of reconciliation and not of supplication.

Further-- I’ve been thinking about why we pray petitions at all-- why not just “Thy will be done”? Specific causes to me seem to be a bit presumptuous and selfish.

 

[Salibi]

as this is a prayer of reconciliation and not of supplication

Why ask for “daily bread” or to “deliver us from evil”? Would this (and virtually all supplication prayers) not be encompassed by “Thy will be done”?

Not really. The LORD’s Prayer is a prayer of both supplication and reconciliation.

Simply put, God is not going to interfere with our free will, so He’s not going to deliver us from evil unless we sincerely ask him to.

Further-- I’ve been thinking about why we pray petitions at all-- why not just “Thy will be done”? Specific causes to me seem to be a bit presumptuous and selfish.

Does it necessarily have to be? One can pray for one’s friend or cousin. Or for the sick and dead of the world. And personal petitions for health and success aren’t necessarily selfish or presumptious unless you’re asking God to, say, hurt a person you don’t like.

 

[Wm777]

We believe that the “Our Father” is a perfect prayer-- given directly to us by Jesus. However, the last times I’ve said the prayer, I can’t get this out of my head.

For someone with a PhD - you sure do have a lot of questions…

Not sure God was so big on letter, but wouldn’t it be a bit presumptuous to think that the petitions of someone with so many questions is somehow frowned upon by God?

Couldn’t the whole prayer be summed up in four words: “Thy will be done”?

Maybe, but what if you were working in the other direction?

Instead of looking at the One - what if you look at the many needs of our daily life… It’s great to contemplate the first commandment, but, when you hit the second, you find relying upon God in all circumstances means asking for things, including forgiveness, and other helps…

Why ask for “daily bread” or to “deliver us from evil”? Would this (and virtually all supplication prayers) not be encompassed by “Thy will be done”?

The NT is prefigured in the OT.

The Exodus was the OT version of the NT Passion and Resurrection.

In the OT, after God has freed Israel from Egypt, God fed the Israelites in the desert with manna; but it wasn’t long before they wanted to go back to Egypt. Adam and Eve were the same way. God provided for them, and they always ended up taking it for granted. Read the passages on Meribah and Massah in the OT to see.

To a lesser extent, I understand the inclusion of “Forgive us our trespasses”, as this is a prayer of reconciliation and not of supplication.

It is? Or do you mean that particular petition is one of reconciliation? The prayer is one of both supplication and reconciliation.

Further-- I’ve been thinking about why we pray petitions at all-- why not just “Thy will be done”? Specific causes to me seem to be a bit presumptuous and selfish.

There’s nothing wrong with accepting the will of God as it is, and The Lord’s Prayer sums it up beautifully.

But the part you seem to be grappling with is that you somehow think it is selfish to ask God for help.

You need not feel any guilt for turning to God in your needs.

In fact, if you look at Matthew’s version, you’ll read - the Disciples asked Jesus how to pray, and then He gave them the Lord’s Prayer. One reason was, He didn’t want them “babbling like the Pagans”; another was He didnt want them acting like hypocrites; yet another was because “Your Father knows what you need before you ask Him”.

The prayer requires a continual metanoia of the person saying it. That “turning back to God” is what it is all about, so there is no shame in it.

Just be sure that when you spend time with God in reflection of the prayer and the first commandment, you remember to look back to share it with others, as well as accept them for who they are.

Then you’ll have it.

 

[Beryllos]

The Catechism has a lot to say about the Lord’s Prayer. Take a look!

The Lord’s Prayer: "Our Father!"

• Introduction and the words of the prayer
• 1. “The Summary of the Whole Gospel”
• 2. “Our Father Who Art in Heaven”
• 3. The Seven Petitions
• 4. The Final Doxology and brief summary

The last question of your original post, “Why we pray petitions at all?,” may be answered elsewhere in the Catechism (Part Four – Christian Prayer). I leave this for you to research and discover.

 

[PetraG]

For someone with a PhD - you sure do have a lot of questions…

Oh, that is exactly what a PhD does to us, trust me. With us, the questions never end. (If they did, what would be the point of getting a PhD?)

Specific causes to me seem to be a bit presumptuous and selfish.

OK, well, the prayer was given by literally the all-time world authority on prayer. We have to start with the premise that this answer was an exceptionally good one for someone who felt they needed guidance on how to pray. Obviously, since Our Lord used many other ways of prayer other than this one, it is not the only single all-purpose prayer for every situation. It is safe to say that nothing in it is superfluous, though.

 

[CatholicPhD]

Thank you for the responses.

People pray and say “Thy will be done” BUT please don’t forget my daily bread. Or “thy will be done” BUT please take care of my Aunt Wilma. Or “thy will be done” but I’d also like to win the lottery (wink, wink).

Why is “Thy will be done” often followed with an implicit “but” or “and”? To me, “thy will be done” should just be the end of it (with contemplation on specific petitions-- because I do believe that reflection on particular issues helps us to prioritize them and can lead to physical and spiritual change).

 

[Salibi]

People pray and say “Thy will be done” BUT please don’t forget my daily bread. Or “thy will be done” BUT please take care of my Aunt Wilma. Or “thy will be done” but I’d also like to win the lottery (wink, wink

I can’t speak for people, but personally I just say “Thy will be done” without any buts.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Don’t you usually address who you’re talking to by name ? Or at least by title?
(ie “hi Fred, hi Gram-gram”)

 

[PetraG]

I can’t speak for people, but personally I just say “Thy will be done” without any buts.

Well, yes, except when asked how we are to pray, that is not what Our Lord told us. In Gethsemane, it is not what He did. He asked for what he wanted, and then said, “but Thy Will be done.”

This reminds me of a scene from the Narnia story “The Magician’s Nephew”:
“Polly and Digory stared at each other in dismay.

‘Well, I do think someone might have arranged about our meals,’ said Digory.

‘I’m sure Aslan would have, if you’d asked him,’ said Fledge.

‘Wouldn’t he know without being asked?’ said Polly.

‘I’ve no doubt he would,’ said the Horse, (still with his mouth full [of grass]). ‘But I’ve a sort of idea he likes to be asked.’"

 

[GiftofMercy]

For someone with a PhD - you sure do have a lot of questions

this is why we get phds, to answer questions and ask new ones.

We believe that the “Our Father” is a perfect prayer–

Take each part of the prayer, pray on it and discern what it is saying, its meaning.

it is also a declaration

 

[Dovekin]

To me, “thy will be done” should just be the end of it

How well do we understand “thy will be done”?
Do we know it as the will of the father of all people?
Do we understand that God should be praised?
Do we know God’s will as the source of our bread? As confort when we sin?
Do we follow that will when God leads us?

The prayer expands upon “thy will be done” in a way that reveals the good, giving nature of God. We understand better who God is and what is asked of us when we consider the ways God is with us throughout our lives.

 

[Irishmom2]

I saw a priest on EWTN once explain how every so often he will reflect on the “Our Father” one word at a time, thinking about what that word means, or why it was chosen.

I have tried this while lying in bed waiting to fall asleep. I don’t think I have ever made it through the whole way. But it is a very interesting thing to do.

 

[Crocus]

@Irishmom2, a former pastor shared that in his priests’ group they once agreed to contemplate the Our Father, word by word, phrase by phrase, and come together from time to time to share reflections. After two years, none had gotten to the end of the prayer, exploring its depth, some only to the eighth word.

 

[Irishmom2]

Have you tried it? If not, you should. It will totally add a deeper dimension.

 

[GiftofMercy]

I once wrote an essay on each line of the Creed, and what it meant. This kind of reflection is also very good for the Lords Prayer.

Our Father who lives in Heaven. To Jesus, God the Father is ABBA, and lives in the Kingdom of heaven.

Holy be your name.

 

[Dlee]

I think along the lines that “our daily bread” is referring to much more than physical nourishment. The Eucharist is our spiritual daily bread.

 

[EndTimes]

Couldn’t the whole prayer be summed up in four words: “Thy will be done”?

No.

Unto Itself, those four words neither makes any sense
nor do they reflect any understanding of Jesus’ Teachings on Prayer
nor does that argument reflect any understanding of Jesus’ full Prayer of Petition to His Father,
when He was on the Cross.

Prayer? Praise, Thanksgiving, Sorrow, Petition…

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