The Our Father from the Hebrew

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I have started doing key passages of the Gospel of Matthew from the ancient Hebrew version of the Gospel of Matthew, and just now finished the Our Father/Lord’s Prayer. Here it is litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Heb+Matt+6

Keep in mind that every Hebrew word is linked to a lexicon so you can check the definition of the root words auomatically. Underneath is my translation.

By the way, if anyone has any pariticular passages in the Gospel of Matthew that they would like to analyze from the ancient Hebrew, then let me know, because I am going to do key passages first before I continue to finish the whole Gospel.

Notice that this text has (את לחמנו תמידי תן לנו היום ) Give us today our perpetual bread.
 
ancient Hebrew version of the Gospel of Matthew
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You mean the medieval Hebrew, right?

The oldest Bible we have is Greek, and even that isn’t a perfect translation - although the Vatican version is the most accurate of all three versions.
 
Eucharisted said:
You mean the medieval Hebrew, right?

The oldest Bible we have is Greek, and even that isn’t a perfect translation - although the Vatican version is the most accurate of all three versions.
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Many scholars teach that all the NT books were originally written in Greek, but there are great arguements made against that, and tradition tells us that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew. Now I am not saying that this manuscript (DuTillet) is the original, but I do believe that it could be a decendant of a much more ancient Hebrew version of Matthew that could be linked to the original. I will eventually come to a more fuller conclusion as time goes on when I have had more time to study this manuscript.

The so-called oldest Bible, I assume you are referring to the Sinaiticus, may be the oldest of an almost complete text of the Bible, but by no means is it even close to possessing the oldest readings, since there are many more papyrus mss that exist which gives us portions of Scripture of older readings. The Dead Sea Scrolls also gives us some of the oldest OT manuscripts in existance.

But back to the DuTillet manuscript, I am not pushing this as an authoritative text, only a witness to a Hebrew version of Matthew that has the possibility of possessing original Hebrew readings. Just as it is important to consult other ancient Bible versions like the Syriac, Latin, and Coptic, the Hebrew manuscript of Matthew can give us insight to some possible original readings.
 
crowcounty said:
what does hebrew have to do with the our father
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It has well been believed that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew, and this manuscript may be a decendant of the original. So it is not about Hebrew having anything to do with the Our Father, just a Hebrew version of the Our Father.
 
COPLAND_3 said:
Many scholars teach that all the NT books were originally written in Greek, but there are great arguements made against that, and tradition tells us that Matthew wrote his Gospel in Hebrew. Now I am not saying that this manuscript (DuTillet) is the original, but I do believe that it could be a decendant of a much more ancient Hebrew version of Matthew that could be linked to the original. I will eventually come to a more fuller conclusion as time goes on when I have had more time to study this manuscript.

The so-called oldest Bible, I assume you are referring to the Sinaiticus, may be the oldest of an almost complete text of the Bible, but by no means is it even close to possessing the oldest readings, since there are many more papyrus mss that exist which gives us portions of Scripture of older readings. The Dead Sea Scrolls also gives us some of the oldest OT manuscripts in existance.

But back to the DuTillet manuscript, I am not pushing this as an authoritative text, only a witness to a Hebrew version of Matthew that has the possibility of possessing original Hebrew readings. Just as it is important to consult other ancient Bible versions like the Syriac, Latin, and Coptic, the Hebrew manuscript of Matthew can give us insight to some possible original readings.
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hm does the hebrew version say christ was crucified?
 
crowcounty said:
hm does the hebrew version say christ was crucified?
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Absolutely, an example would be in 27:35 it starts off ואחרי שצלבו אותו And they crucified him… שצלבו being the word for “crucified.”
 
So, the English translation is somewhat misleading when it says ‘daily bread’ which connotes asking for earthly food for the day, while the Hebrew says ‘perpetual bread’ which can only be Jesus in the Eucharist. I understand the more literal translation of the Greek says ‘super-substantial bread’ or something like that. Both the Hebrew and the Greek seem to point to something more enduring than meals for the day, but rather the food for eternal life and a command to receive Communion daily. Just my opinion.
 
Linda_Marie said:
So, the English translation is somewhat misleading when it says ‘daily bread’ which connotes asking for earthly food for the day, while the Hebrew says ‘perpetual bread’ which can only be Jesus in the Eucharist. I understand the more literal translation of the Greek says ‘super-substantial bread’ or something like that. Both the Hebrew and the Greek seem to point to something more enduring than meals for the day, but rather the food for eternal life and a command to receive Communion daily. Just my opinion.
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I couldn’t agree more!
 
COPLAND_3 said:
I have started doing key passages of the Gospel of Matthew from the ancient Hebrew version of the Gospel of Matthew, and just now finished the Our Father/Lord’s Prayer. Here it is litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Heb+Matt+6

Keep in mind that every Hebrew word is linked to a lexicon so you can check the definition of the root words auomatically. Underneath is my translation.

By the way, if anyone has any pariticular passages in the Gospel of Matthew that they would like to analyze from the ancient Hebrew, then let me know, because I am going to do key passages first before I continue to finish the whole Gospel.

Notice that this text has (את לחמנו תמידי תן לנו היום ) Give us today our perpetual bread.
Click to expand...
Hi John, I have one question: Isn’t “For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory, forever and ever, amen,” a gloss? I always thought this wasn’t ‘technically’ part of the Our Father.
 
zach_dunn said:
Hi John, I have one question: Isn’t “For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory, forever and ever, amen,” a gloss? I always thought this wasn’t ‘technically’ part of the Our Father.
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You’re right, it’s not in Matthew or Luke where the Lord’s Prayer is written. It came from the Mass. Protestants don’t realize they’re actually remembering one of the prayers of the Mass when they say that part ;).
 
copland 3

Can you cite some reasons why this manuscript more likely represents the original Hebrew of Matthew, rather than a translation from Greek back to Hebrew?
 
Ron_Conte said:
copland 3

Can you cite some reasons why this manuscript more likely represents the original Hebrew of Matthew, rather than a translation from Greek back to Hebrew?
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I’m not saying that this manuscript is “more likely” representing the original, but I have only been saying that it could or may. I’m not willing to go beyond that, especially not “more likely.”

So far I have noticed that this manuscript does have readings that do not consistantly agree with the Greek, Latin or Aramaic, and seems to have a blend of all of them at different times, and is completely unique. As far as OT citations it usually agrees with the traditional Hebrew text and not the LXX, except for one spot, but that is so far while I am still in the early stages of this project. I have yet to make a complete effort in comparing the variant readings since I am very occupied with linking all the words to a lexicon and translating. I am so far into the early stage that I have not come to any real conclusions, and may not at the end either. All I am interested in is to provide the Hebrew Matthew as a tool, not as a substitute to our Received text. Your work on the Vulgate is far superior to this, and I have no intentions to lifting this project any higher than “just another study tool.”
 
When Jesus taught the Our Father to the disciples was He speaking to them in Hebrew or in Aramaic?
 
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