The Our Father is not a common Christian Prayer

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I was saying a rosary at work today and someone came over and asked about it. He then asked if we say the Apostle Creed, which I say yes we do and he said that, that prayer was a good common Christian prayer. I mentioned that the Our Father was also a common Christian prayer, and he said that it was not, because in the prayer, it said “forgive us our trespasses and we forgive other” and that we Christians do not have any sins to forgive as they are all forgive in the past and future and that we can not loose our salvation because of it. It caught me off guard as I have never heard any protestant say that about the Our Father before.

I was stymied and whole conversation was kind of one sided after that as I was trying to focus on the Our Father part. I want to get back to him on this, but can use some help with some technique on how to direct the conversation. If all protestants to not agree with the Our Father, how can I engage in on this?
 
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I think you’ll find that is part of the once saved always saved argument. I’ve heard various Protestants come down on both sides of this.

There are tons of theological ramifications to this. Those following the “get out of jail free” card philosophy generally have to then say of course, you have to lead a good life, otherwise you weren’t saved to begin with.

I think there is a current thread discussing this. Maybe the why aren’t you Catholic one.

I’m sure others will chime in.

Blessings,
Stephie
 
I would ask him why did Jesus teach us to pray the Our Father? If he has a problem with it, maybe he should take it up with Jesus 😉
 
That did come up and he said the following.

That Jesus was teaching Jewish people to pray before the resurrection and that once he was resurrected that the old ways and practices (like the way he taught the apostles to pray) not longer applied, because once you are given the grace of accepting Jesus, that prayer no longer applies.
 
daltongang said:
That did come up and he said the following.

That Jesus was teaching Jewish people to pray before the resurrection and that once he was resurrected that the old ways and practices (like the way he taught the apostles to pray) not longer applied, because once you are given the grace of accepting Jesus, that prayer no longer applies.
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Ask him where’s the logic in that? Why would Jesus take the time to teach them that beautiful prayer and why would it be recorded in the Bible if it was going to be “outdated” and irrelevant in just a couple years?

Jesus didn’t come to teach the Jews how to live just before the Resurrection. He was preparing them to live after the Resurrection.

Also, Jesus wasn’t teaching the Jews how to pray outside the Body of Christ. He was preparing them to be part of the Body of Christ.

So such an argument makes no logical sense, and is pretty illogical.
 
daltongang said:
That Jesus was teaching Jewish people to pray before the resurrection and that once he was resurrected that the old ways and practices (like the way he taught the apostles to pray) not longer applied, because once you are given the grace of accepting Jesus, that prayer no longer applies.
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It sounds like he’s a Dispensationalist. I’ve met a few over the years and they’re usually non-denominational fundamentalists. They believe that God assigns different ages or dispensationlists for humanity. For example, Jesus’ mission was to the Jews and he taught Jews only. They were under the “dispensation” of the Mosaic Law and according to one dispensationist who I once worked with, the Jews didn’t believe Jesus and they’re still under the Law. Jesus’ teachings were for Jews only and that’s why people who are dispensationalists feel free to ignore what Jesus taught. We are now in the “Church” or “Grace” age and (I guess) should follow the NT teachings to the Church. That’s why he feels free to ignore the Our Father.

Other than this, I don’t know much else. Here’s a Wiki article with the basics:


Be careful because this man is probably trying to evangelize you and you might want to learn what he believes first and then how to respond.
 
This is exactly what is he was talking about. I will do some study on Dispensationalism, before getting back to him.

Thank you to everyone who replied, and I learned some new things.
 
“Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them NOT to observe all that I have commanded you, since none of that applies anymore. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

#thingsjesusneversaid
 
daltongang said:
That did come up and he said the following.

That Jesus was teaching Jewish people to pray before the resurrection and that once he was resurrected that the old ways and practices (like the way he taught the apostles to pray) not longer applied, because once you are given the grace of accepting Jesus, that prayer no longer applies
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That makes no sense. I had a friend once who is part of the OSAS group. It has more holes in it than Swiss cheese to be honest.

Christ came to fulfill the old law and do away with old customs (making all foods clean, performing good works on sabbath). Each time He offered a new teaching, it was usually in opposition to the current practices: “you have heard it said… but I say…” He only ever followed the old law and customs without contest prior to His public ministry. Once He began, He was constantly changing the way people did things. It would make zero sense for Him to teach his disciples a method of prayer that he would abolish Himself in a little over a year.
 
So, according to this person, the only pray that Christ explicitly taught us to pray isn’t worthy of being a common Christian prayer…?

I wonder if these people ever actually think about this stuff…
 
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My grandma was raised in a very fundamentalist obscure English branch of Protestantism. She used this argument for a number of NEW Testament verses that didn’t match her doctrine: well that was only intended for the first century…doesn’t apply to believers now.
 
Christ himself taught that prayer to the apostles plus it’s in the Bible. So either his OSAS is false or the bible is in error and Christ didn’t know what He was talking about.
 
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