The Our Father -- Only acceptable prayer?

[kevdlandrig]

This is a topic that has seriously gotten on my nerves with a friend of mine.

Here goes: My friend, if I can still call him that, is trying to pull his Girlfriend away from the Faith entirely. She is Catholic. My friend says that if I can convince him that his Protestant views are wrong, and why they are wrong, then He will convert to Catholicism instead.

Here is our first subject: Prayer, specifically, the Our Father/Lord’s Prayer.
Matthew6:

1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Prayer

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one

My friend argues that when Jesus said this, he was saying that you should pray only the Lord’s Prayer and the Lord’s Prayer alone. This is clearly wrong. However, I cannot think of a very strong argument that will convince him because, as per his rules, I can only use the bible and I cannot focus on tradition. How do I combat this?

 

[PeaceSerenity]

One thing to note is that Jesus himself prayed other prayers aside from the Lord’s Prayer, and since we are to follow His example, this cannot mean that the Lord’s Prayer is the only acceptable prayer, the only prayer that God hears.

First Note is that Christ was a good Jew who went to the synagogue and prayed with the rest of the Jews, and they were praying according to the Jewish custom (which did not contain the Our Father).

It is very likely, in fact, that Christ prayed the psalms, since they were (and still are, I assume) common Jewish prayers. We can see evidence of this in His final words on the cross which were quotes from the psalms:

Psalms 31:5, which Luke identifies as his final words on the cross: “Into Your hands I commend my spirit” (Luke 23:46).

Psalm 22 'Eli, 'Eli, lamah 'azavtani—“My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?”

Here are several examples were Christ prays “Non-Lord’s Prayer Prayers”

• “Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name-the name you gave me-so that they may be one as we are one” (John 17:11).
• “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you” (John 17:20-21).
• ‘I praise you, Father, lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure’” (Luke 10:21).
• ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will’” (Matthew 26:39).

 

[st_felicity]

My friend argues that when Jesus said this, he was saying that you should pray only the Lord’s Prayer and the Lord’s Prayer alone. This is clearly wrong. However, I cannot think of a very strong argument that will convince him because, as per his rules, I can only use the bible and I cannot focus on tradition. How do I combat this?

You shouldn’t feel you need to convince anyone–you’re not going to convert anyone. It is for God to provide the grace and the individual to accept that grace.

With that said…In addition to the verses and points made by PeaceSerenity, just a few points elsewhere in Matthew…

Matt.9
[38] pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest."
Where does the Lord’s Prayer address harvesters for the harvest? If we can onlty pray the Lord’s Prayer–why are we told to pray this?

Matt.21
[22] And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith."

Doesn’t that verse indicate “whatever” we ask in prayer? That seems to indicate that prayer is free-form also.

Matt.24
[20] Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath.
Again–Where does the Lord’s Prayer address “flight in winter or on the sabbath?” If we can onlty pray the Lord’s Prayer–why are we told to pray this?

And then…here is Jesus himself praying something other than the Lord’s Prayer. If Christ is our model for behavior, why couldn’t we also pray this?

Matt.26
[36] Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsem’ane, and he said to his disciples, “Sit here, while I go yonder and pray.”
[39] And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
[41] Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
[42] Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, “My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, thy will be done.”
[44] So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words.

 

[kevdlandrig]

I forgot to mention one last important detail. My friend has said that If it is Jesus praying, then it does not count, because He is God, and, therefore, can do whatever he pleases when He prays. We, as lay people, cannot create our own prayers.

 

[William_Pitts]

I forgot to mention one last important detail. My friend has said that If it is Jesus praying, then it does not count, because He is God, and, therefore, can do whatever he pleases when He prays. We, as lay people, cannot create our own prayers.

Where does the bible say that?

 

[Willy_Jose]

The Our Father is a beautiful communal prayer. There are all the proper elements of a solemn prayer to God. Praise, thanksgiving, petitions, contrition…and is probably the main point of Jesus’ instruction how to pray. Thus when we pray at any given time, we invoke some or all of the elements of that prayer according to our intentions. I don’t think God will ever fault us if we don’t use the ‘exact’ formula when we speak to him in prayers. On the other hand, it is excellent likewise to pray the Our Father verbatim from Scriptures, as we do at Mass. The important thing is our piety and sincerity in praying. God will listen every time.

Pope Benedict has a wonderful reflection and insight on the Our Father in his first release of ‘Jesus of Nazareth’. That chapter alone makes the book worthwhile.

 

[pablope]

This is a topic that has seriously gotten on my nerves with a friend of mine.

Here goes: My friend, if I can still call him that, is trying to pull his Girlfriend away from the Faith entirely. She is Catholic. My friend says that if I can convince him that his Protestant views are wrong, and why they are wrong, then He will convert to Catholicism instead.

Here is our first subject: Prayer, specifically, the Our Father/Lord’s Prayer.

My friend argues that when Jesus said this, he was saying that you should pray only the Lord’s Prayer and the Lord’s Prayer alone. This is clearly wrong. However, I cannot think of a very strong argument that will convince him because, as per his rules, I can only use the bible and I cannot focus on tradition. How do I combat this?

The word “only” is not in the passage…but it says this is how to pray…meaning, follow the example of the Our Father…praise God first…“thy will be done”…submit to God’s will…“give us this day…” ask for blessings only for what you need…and forgive our tresspasses…meaning, ask for forgiveness and you forgive others.

Ask you friend to prove where it is in the Bible that is the only prayer one is to pray. Look at the account of the agony in the garden, Jesus prayed three times.

He prayed for Peter too that Peter will not fail his fellow apostles. There is also the example of Paul praying in his epistles and in Acts…look for stephen’s martyrdom.

And Jesus can pray too, and he is setting the example for us how to pray.

 

[pablope]

I forgot to mention one last important detail. My friend has said that If it is Jesus praying, then it does not count, because He is God, and, therefore, can do whatever he pleases when He prays. We, as lay people, cannot create our own prayers.

Why do you keep intimaded by his conditions? Jesus had two natures, the divine and human. When he was praying, his human nature was the one praying, so Jesus does count. Tell your friend this that you will cite Jesus as needed. He cannot exclude anything in the Bible, otherwise, he is being selective.

Psalms are also examples of prayers. Look at psalm 51, king david’s prayer of repentance.

 

[st_felicity]

I forgot to mention one last important detail. My friend has said that If it is Jesus praying, then it does not count, because He is God, and, therefore, can do whatever he pleases when He prays. We, as lay people, cannot create our own prayers.

So …what about those parts where he tells us to pray for things that are not mentioned in the “Our Father”?

 

[EricFilmer]

My friend argues that when Jesus said this, he was saying that you should pray only the Lord’s Prayer and the Lord’s Prayer alone. This is clearly wrong. However, I cannot think of a very strong argument that will convince him because, as per his rules, I can only use the bible and I cannot focus on tradition. How do I combat this?

First of all, I think the material posted by others in this thread destroys your friend’s position, especially st._felicity’s in Post #3.

Secondly, I think it is worth pointing out that the issue at hand is not about a difference between the teachings of Catholicism and Protestantism. Rather, it is a difference between your friend’s opinion and the teachings of all of Christianity: Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant! Never before I have never heard of anyone ever saying that the only prayer a Christian is supposed to say is the Our Father, and I am willing to bet that among the thousands of Protestant denominations there are none who officially teach such a thing (and I say this speaking as a former Protestant).

**The Protestants have a number of official “Sola” teachings, but “Sola Lord’s Prayer” is not one of them. **

Consider the widespread Christian practice of table blessings. Consider all the people who bought the book The Prayer of Jabaz and practice this prayer. When your friend goes to his own Protestant church, are we to honestly believe that the only prayer said during an entire service is the Our Father? Ask him what happened in his own church when he went to Easter service last Sunday (assuming that he went).

And how about hymns? A hymn is nothing more than a sung prayer. Shall Christian hymnals be filled with nothing else but variations on ways to sing the Our Father?
Ask your friend if it is ok to sing “How Great Thou Art”. If he says yes, then ask what is the difference between singing it as a hymn and reciting the lyrics as a prayer. The message is the same, and the message is directed to God (i.e., “How Great Thou Art”). Either way it is presented, it is a prayer.

In light of all this, I am curious as to why your friend brought this “Sola Lord’s Prayer” thing up in what is supposed to be a debate between Catholic teachings and Protestant teaching, seeing as it is a teaching of neither.

 

[LilyM]

Ok, so if Jesus praying in another way than the Our Father doesn’t count, the same restriction doesn’t apply to the Apostles - there are places (for example in Acts where they are choosing Matthias) where they are shown as praying in words other than those of the Our Father. What does your friend make of those?

 

[TimothyH]

Let’s look at what Jesus’ best friend, the guy who reclined on his bosom and who walked with Jesus for three years has to say about prayer.

I write these things to you so that you may know that you have eternal life, you who believe in the name of the Son of God. And we have this confidence in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in regard to whatever we ask, we know that what we have asked him for is ours. (1 John 5:13-15)
How does God “hear us in regard to whatever we ask” if we can only ask for daily bread, forgiveness in proportion to our forgiveness of others and deliverace from evil as in the Lord’s prayer? Let’s see how Peter prayed…

Now Peter and John were going up to the temple area for the three o’clock hour of prayer (Acts 3:1)

This happened in Acts, after Jesus’ ressurection and ascention. Did Peter and John only pray the Lord’s prayer in the temple? And why did they need to go to the Temple if the only prayer they were to say was the “our father”?

And what about Paul?

Therefore, I, too, hearing of your faith in the Lord Jesus and of your love for all the holy ones, do not cease giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation resulting in knowledge of him. (Ephesians 1:15-17)

Paul gives thanks to God for the faith and love of the Christian community in Ephesius. I don’t remember anything about Ephesian Christians in the Lord’s Prayer. He clearly states that he prays specifically for God to give the Ephesian Christians a spirit of wisdom which is also not in the Lords prayer.

It really sounds like your firend is just making things up as he goes along.

-Tim-

 

[Nowhere_Man]

In addition to the above answers, what about the Publican? He is clearly praying another prayer than the Our Father:

" 9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” "

 

[fred_conty]

I forgot to mention one last important detail. My friend has said that If it is Jesus praying, then it does not count, because He is God, and, therefore, can do whatever he pleases when He prays. We, as lay people, cannot create our own prayers.

Ask him, “where does the bible say that?”
What he is saying isn’t Protestant either.
Tell him if he becomes Catholic, he can also say the hail mary.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

And, you just might want to remind your friend of what he is actually praying for when he recites the Lord’s Prayer.

He is asking God to judge him, exactly as he judges others. Therefore, if he is intolerant of others (including of their religions) then God will be intolerant with him. If he judges the actions of others, then God will so judge his actions.

Few people actually THINK about that prayer, but they should. You are asking God to treat you exactly how you treat others.

Pretty powerful words in reality.

 

[brumano]

This is a topic that has seriously gotten on my nerves with a friend of mine.

Here goes: My friend, if I can still call him that, is trying to pull his Girlfriend away from the Faith entirely. She is Catholic. My friend says that if I can convince him that his Protestant views are wrong, and why they are wrong, then He will convert to Catholicism instead.

Here is our first subject: Prayer, specifically, the Our Father/Lord’s Prayer.

My friend argues that when Jesus said this, he was saying that you should pray only the Lord’s Prayer and the Lord’s Prayer alone. This is clearly wrong. However, I cannot think of a very strong argument that will convince him because, as per his rules, I can only use the bible and I cannot focus on tradition. How do I combat this?

Using the Lord’s prayer only then you can pray for any intention contained in it, or which comes from it. For instance “Our Father who art in Heaven Hallowed be Thy Name” would allow all prayers praising the Holiness, Majesty and Eternity of God such as the prayer called the “Glory Be” does. There really are’nt any possible personal or church intentions that don’t come into the Lord’s Prayer but all those intentions can all be detailled in prayer from it.