The "Our Father" What DO I do with my hands?

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The posture of the people during prayer at Mass is not one of the items in the GIRM list that bishop may change on his own authority (see GIRM 387). Thus it is not legitimate for a bishop to require people to assume the orans posture during the Our Father.

The GIRM does say that a bishop has the “responsibility above all for fostering the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy in the priests, deacons, and faithful”. He has the authority to see that practices in his diocese conform to the norms liturgical law, and, mindful of this, a bishop is to “regulate” these things:
  1. “the discipline of concelebration”;
  2. “the establishing of norms regarding the function of serving the priest at the altar”;
  3. “the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds”;
  4. “the construction and ordering of churches”. The posture of the people at prayer is not on this list.
http://www.adoremus.org/AdBull.html
 
Island Oak:
Our family with 3 young children holds hands and I relish the practice. What better more appropriate time to feel our communion with each other and God? However, I have no interest in holding hands with the stranger next to me–finding it particularly awkward to be holding hands with a man other than my husband in the middle of mass. Yes, we are a community–but physical contact is hardly a requisite part of that type of relationship.
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This is exactally why it should either be everyone holding hands or no one holding hands. You are with your little family in a little prayer huddle but what about the stranger next to you who came alone - there they stand without a hand to hold. How lonely must that be? They will be the very same ones who say that the Catholic Church is so unfriendly - no one will even hold your hand.
 
Carol Marie, I respectfully disagree. To quote Archbishop Chaput:
The priest stands with his arms outstretched as the prayer begins. The assembly should also stand. There are no options for gestures listed in the General Instruction for this part of the Mass. For many persons, folding their hands during the “Our Father” is the best way to express their prayer. For others, they may hold their hands outstretched. Still others hold hands.

None of these gestures is mandated or forbidden by the Church.** So our guiding principles should be respect for the dignity of the Mass, and respect for the freedom of our fellow worshipers. **

Some people feel that holding hands during the “Our Father” enhances a sense of community. This is perfectly appropriate — so long as it can be done with dignity and without the unseemly acrobatics that sometimes ensue.

For other people, holding hands is a kind of intimacy they reserve for family members. It makes them uncomfortable to hold hands during Mass, and they prefer not to do it. This is also perfectly appropriate. A parish may have several ways of praying the “Our Father,” depending on the people who take part in a specific Mass. No one should feel coerced, and the beauty of the liturgy should always be observed.
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In short, speaking personally, since I feel coerced, -and as a result the fervency of my participation in this most important of prayers is compromised- I must reserve the right to not participate in hand-holding. If others want to amongst themselves, fine and dandy. It is too intimate for me beyond family members. There are MANY who share my feelings on this (I suspect).
 
ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp

**Holding Hands at Mass

**It is introduced on personal initiative. The Holy See has authority over the liturgy according to Vatican II’s “Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy” #22 and canon 838 of the Code of Canon Law.

This gesture has come into widespread use, often leaving bishops and pastors at a loss as to how to reverse the situation. For individuals, I would recommend closed eyes and a prayerful posture as sufficient response, rather than belligerence. Most laity, and probably many priests, are blind to the liturgical significance of interrupting the flow of the Mass in this way. It is not necessary to lose one’s peace over this or be an irritation to others. Some proportion is required. If asked why you don’t participate, simply, plainly and charitably tell the questioner of your discovery. If some chance of changing the practice is possible talk to the pastor or work with other laity through the parish council. You can also write the bishop, as is your right in the case of any liturgical abuse not resolved at the parish level. If your judgment is that no change is possible then I believe you are excused from further fraternal correction.
 
carol marie:
This is exactally why it should either be everyone holding hands or no one holding hands. You are with your little family in a little prayer huddle but what about the stranger next to you who came alone - there they stand without a hand to hold. How lonely must that be? They will be the very same ones who say that the Catholic Church is so unfriendly - no one will even hold your hand.
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I see your concern but disagree with your conclusion. Holding hands–especially between adults–is a gesture of intimacy–something I share with my family and husband, but certainly not a stranger. I think the opportunity to reach out, shake hands and greet our neighbors during the sign of peace is adequate for that purpose. The mass for me is a spiritual, prayerful time–not a call to socialize with those around me–even if they are new to the parish, lonely, etc. There are other times and places where newcomers can be appropriately greeted and introduced.
 
I guess I’ll weigh in one more time ith my view on the issue. Like others have stated, when I stand up, I immediately fold my hands and bow my head. I personally don’t like the hand holding at Mass. First, the Our Father is a “vertical” prayer, we should be focusing on God, and not others in the church. Second, and more importantly, it messes up the significance of the Sign of Peace. It will never make any sense to me to hold a strangers hand, then let go, then turn to him and shake his hand. Going from a more personal gesture to one that is less personal goes against the purpose of the Sign of Peace.

I have less of a problem with the Orans posture, but I don’t particularly like that either in the context of the Mass. It seems to me to be nothing more than an imitation of the priest. It also doesn’t seems right when the priest is in the Orans, the deacon is not, and the people in the pews are. It seems awfully messy to me. As another poster mentioned, everything in the Mass is there for a purpose (the postures of the priest are prescribed) - it is ultimately one sign. I don’t think we should be messing with it.

Finally, as for the claim that there should be unity of posture, I agree. However, remember we are members of the Catholic Church. That means it is universal. At least for us in the Latin Rite, we should be more concerned about universal unity in posture with all members of our particular rite. Focusing on uniformity within each parish, to the exclusion of other parishes, is false unity…in fact, it is congregationalism. It it absurd that near me there are two parishes within 5 minutes of each other: one is a hand-holding parish, the other is not. Where is the unity in this situation? There is none. We should be working to eliminate congregationalism in Holy Mother Church, not promoting it under the guise of “unity of posture”.
 
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Mycroft:
i just start coughing and wiping my nose on my hands, pick my nose a little. that usually discourages them.
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I tried that once and some women still grabbed onto my hand without me even extending my hands. I jerked my hand free anyway.
 
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mtr01:
Finally, as for the claim that there should be unity of posture, I agree. However, remember we are members of the Catholic Church. That means it is universal. At least for us in the Latin Rite, we should be more concerned about universal unity in posture with all members of our particular rite. Focusing on uniformity within each parish, to the exclusion of other parishes, is false unity…in fact, it is congragationalism. It it absurd that near me there are two parishes within 5 minutes of each other: one is a hand-holding parish, the other is not. Where is the unity in this situation? There is none. We should be working to eliminate congegationalism in Holy Mother Church, not promoting it under the guise of “unity of posture”.
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Very well put. Some on the left try to use a legalistic attitude to force others to comply with the personal initiative of a few.
 
These are all just opinions.

Since no posture is prescribed, this is all just speculation.

And, no, the Bishops are not at liberty to change anything, but the discussion on the orans posture was prior to their submitting the US adaptations for approval.

If it was under consideration by the Bishops, it can’t be all that bad.
 
I’m glad to see the discussions concerning hand-holding, orans posture, etc. I am coming into the church, and went alone to my first Mass attendance. I had no idea that they held hands, and when the man next to me reached out and grabbed my hand, I felt compelled to give it to him, even though it made me uncomfortable. Being new to all of this, I did it because everyone else was doing it, and I thought that it was what you were supposed to do. I have learned since then, that it is not what you are supposed to do. It is a practice that was started by congregations and allowed to continue, much like going forward to receive a blessing with your arms crossed over your chest at time of communion. There are no rubrics that address that, and even though it may feel good, and in and of itself there is no harm in it, it is not part of the liturgy. It is just one more thing that the people want to do, and have been allowed to do. A whole congregation holding hands in and of itself is not a bad thing, either. However, what these practices are really doing is bad. They make people who don’t know any better believe that they are required. They allow the congregation to do what feels good to them. If allowed to continue, who knows what will be next. Will we be able to even recognize the Mass?
 
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sherilo:
I’m glad to see the discussions concerning hand-holding, orans posture, etc. I am coming into the church, and went alone to my first Mass attendance. I had no idea that they held hands, and when the man next to me reached out and grabbed my hand, I felt compelled to give it to him, even though it made me uncomfortable. Being new to all of this, I did it because everyone else was doing it, and I thought that it was what you were supposed to do. I have learned since then, that it is not what you are supposed to do. It is a practice that was started by congregations and allowed to continue, much like going forward to receive a blessing with your arms crossed over your chest at time of communion. There are no rubrics that address that, and even though it may feel good, and in and of itself there is no harm in it, it is not part of the liturgy. It is just one more thing that the people want to do, and have been allowed to do. A whole congregation holding hands in and of itself is not a bad thing, either. However, what these practices are really doing is bad. They make people who don’t know any better believe that they are required. They allow the congregation to do what feels good to them. If allowed to continue, who knows what will be next. Will we be able to even recognize the Mass?
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Welcome home. You post is right on target.
 
Not to be too alarmist, but I think this is a fair topic for discussion and is not too detail-obsessed. Things end up codified in liturgy after repetition of practice, whether that practice is ideal or not. The head bow before Communion has no history in the Latin rite and is in the GIRM now.
 
Island Oak:
Our family with 3 young children holds hands and I relish the practice. What better more appropriate time to feel our communion with each other and God? However, I have no interest in holding hands with the stranger next to me–finding it particularly awkward to be holding hands with a man other than my husband in the middle of mass. Yes, we are a community–but physical contact is hardly a requisite part of that type of relationship.
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Actually aren’t we brothers and sisters in Christ? So physical contact(holding hands0 wouldn’t be such a bad idea now would it?
I prefer to hold hands during mass,it’s nice just to celebrate mass with the community ( or the church i should say)
Podo
 
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sherilo:
I’m glad to see the discussions concerning hand-holding, orans posture, etc. I am coming into the church, and went alone to my first Mass attendance. I had no idea that they held hands, and when the man next to me reached out and grabbed my hand, I felt compelled to give it to him, even though it made me uncomfortable. Being new to all of this, I did it because everyone else was doing it, and I thought that it was what you were supposed to do. I have learned since then, that it is not what you are supposed to do. It is a practice that was started by congregations and allowed to continue, much like going forward to receive a blessing with your arms crossed over your chest at time of communion. There are no rubrics that address that, and even though it may feel good, and in and of itself there is no harm in it, it is not part of the liturgy. It is just one more thing that the people want to do, and have been allowed to do. A whole congregation holding hands in and of itself is not a bad thing, either. However, what these practices are really doing is bad. They make people who don’t know any better believe that they are required. They allow the congregation to do what feels good to them. If allowed to continue, who knows what will be next. Will we be able to even recognize the Mass?
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What kind of Church are we becoming, trying to tell people to reject hand holding!! Come on, we know they are not required but it makes us feel more like a community( A church) then just staying alone. I mean I still would be able to reconize mass, unless I’ve gone blind.
Podo
 
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Podo2004:
Actually aren’t we brothers and sisters in Christ? So physical contact(holding hands0 wouldn’t be such a bad idea now would it?
I prefer to hold hands during mass,it’s nice just to celebrate mass with the community ( or the church i should say)
Podo
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see post #45 for the relevant distinctions.
 
45 is also opinion, and not in the spirit of the Body of Christ. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ,so if it is OK to hold hands with our biological family,it is even better to hold hands with our Spiritual family.

I am not saying it is wrong or right in either case, since there is no official word in the GIRM, and there are different interpretations from authentic sources.

It is not about our preference, neither in this case, nor in posture for Holy Communion, or any liturgical situation where we are using personal interpretation.

In the US, we should obey the USCCB. If you do not agree, you are not in agreement with the instructions in the GIRM.
 
Mysty101 said:
45 is also opinion, and not in the spirit of the Body of Christ. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ,so if it is OK to hold hands with our biological family,it is even better to hold hands with our Spiritual family.

I am not saying it is wrong or right in either case, since there is no official word in the GIRM, and there are different interpretations from authentic sources.

It is not about our preference, neither in this case, nor in posture for Holy Communion, or any liturgical situation where we are using personal interpretation.

In the US, we should obey the USCCB. If you do not agree, you are not in agreement with the instructions in the GIRM.
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I think it’s one thing for a family or close friends to hold hands and pray, another thing to grab a strangers hand and pray, when that person does not feel comfortable doing so (there may be physical reasons why).

But I think it is clearly OVERBOARD for a priest to INSTRUCT the congregation to hold hands. This is clearly wrong! I’ve had this happen way too many times.
 
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tmitchell2:
I think it’s one thing for a family or close friends to hold hands and pray, another thing to grab a strangers hand and pray, when that person does not feel comfortable doing so (there may be physical reasons why).

But I think it is clearly OVERBOARD for a priest to INSTRUCT the congregation to hold hands. This is clearly wrong! I’ve had this happen way too many times.
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I agree, my point is if it is OK to hold hands with anyone, it is OK to hold hands with everyone.

It is never ok to force yourself on anyone–we are worshipping, not the liturgical police.
 
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Mysty101:
I agree, my point is if it is OK to hold hands with anyone, it is OK to hold hands with everyone.

It is never ok to force yourself on anyone–we are worshipping, not the liturgical police.
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Do you really not see a distinction between intimacies that are shared between family members or spouses and gestures which are appropriate between strangers? I don’t kiss strange men or embrace them. Why should I feel compelled to hold hands with them–or made to feel guilty if I refuse–especially within the context of the mass?
 
Island Oak:
Do you really not see a distinction between intimacies that are shared between family members or spouses and gestures which are appropriate between strangers? I don’t kiss strange men or embrace them. Why should I feel compelled to hold hands with them–or made to feel guilty if I refuse–especially within the context of the mass?
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This is pretty much my point as well I/O. Let me guess, after you hold a family member’s hand for the Our Father, you give them a kiss or hug during the Sign of Peace, right? I’d say that’s completely appropriate. Now would you do that with a complete stranger after holding hands? I think not…It’s not anywhere close to our cultural custom, which is shaking hands. Going from an intimate gesture to a less intimate gesture reduces to significance of the Sign of Peace to nothing. Now, if you are going to exchange a “Kiss of Peace” with every person next to you at Mass, then go ahead and hold their hand. Somehow, I don’t thinks that’s going to catch on here 😉

Furthermore, the expression of “community” at the Mass is Holy Communion. IMO, that’s where we should express our unity with our fellow Christians as members of the Body of Christ, not when praying a vertical prayer to Our Father. But hey, that’s me 😃
 
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