The "Our Father" What DO I do with my hands?

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mtr01:
Furthermore, the expression of “community” at the Mass is Holy Communion. IMO, that’s where we should express our unity with our fellow Christians as members of the Body of Christ, not when praying a vertical prayer to Our Father. But hey, that’s me 😃
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That is you and the Church. Don’t you know personal initiative is what it is all about? You need to start foisting some novelties on others.
 
Island Oak:
Do you really not see a distinction between intimacies that are shared between family members or spouses and gestures which are appropriate between strangers? I don’t kiss strange men or embrace them. Why should I feel compelled to hold hands with them–or made to feel guilty if I refuse–especially within the context of the mass?
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My response has nothing to do with personal preference. If a gesture is not OK for everyone, then it isn’t OK for Mass. Not a big deal, possibly not even a minor abuse (depends on who is interpreting the rules), but if you feel a gesture is too intimate for everyone, it doesn’t belong at Mass. I do not think holding hands, or a kiss on the cheek is too intimate, but would never want anyone to feel guilty, if they do.

(I personally try to note if the person next to me wishes to hold hands, and then I do. If not, then I don’t)
 
Look at what is happening here. People are having to figure out who wants to hold hands and who doesn’t–in the middle of Mass, no less. At the very least, that qualifies as a distraction. And why is this happening? Because people have been allowed to make up their own rules. Now we have some who hold hands, some who don’t hold hands, some who want to hold hands, some who don’t, but do it anyway, some who grab your hands, some who think you’re rude if you don’t let them grab your hands, etc. etc. If it is not directed, we should not be making up our own feel good practices. It’ confusing. People are different. That is why we have the liturgy and rubrics. We are supposed to be led, not lead.
 
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sherilo:
Look at what is happening here. People are having to figure out who wants to hold hands and who doesn’t–in the middle of Mass, no less. At the very least, that qualifies as a distraction. And why is this happening? Because people have been allowed to make up their own rules. Now we have some who hold hands, some who don’t hold hands, some who want to hold hands, some who don’t, but do it anyway, some who grab your hands, some who think you’re rude if you don’t let them grab your hands, etc. etc. If it is not directed, we should not be making up our own feel good practices. It’ confusing. People are different. That is why we have the liturgy and rubrics. We are supposed to be led, not lead.
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Right. All these things give cover to those who want to make the mass their private property, both lay and clergy.
 
I’m glad we don’t hold hands during the Our Father anymore. Now I wish they would do away with the shaking of hands. I find them both distracting when we should be concentrating on praising God.
 
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Tinkerbell:
I’m glad we don’t hold hands during the Our Father anymore. Now I wish they would do away with the shaking of hands. I find them both distracting when we should be concentrating on praising God.
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There is no instruction on holding hands, and conflicting interpretations, so it would seem authentic to use your preference at this time.

However the GIRM does instruct us to give the sign of peace if the celebrant gives the direction. I believe the instruction is not as precise as to the manner, so it would be fine to just say “peace” or smile or nod, if you do not wish to touch. You could just sort of loose clasp your hands to protect against grabbers, and acknowledge those right near you in a gentle manner.

The Mass is public prayer with specific instructions. We “should” be doing what we told. A poor attitude would certainly deminish the quality of the praise.
 
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Mysty101:
There is no instruction on holding hands, and conflicting interpretations, so it would seem authentic to use your preference at this time…
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This seems to be bad logic. There is no instruction saying we can’t tap dance and juggle either. Not saying something in the norms does not mean we are free to do what we wish.
 
Our Bishop recently published the liturgical norms for our Diocese. They go into effect on March 24th.

They state that holding hands during the Our Father is “not in the Order of the Mass.” He leaves it at that. My reading is that he doesn’t approve of holding hands, but that he isn’t going to interfere dramatically if it goes on.

Alan
 
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fix:
This seems to be bad logic. There is no instruction saying we can’t tap dance and juggle either. Not saying something in the norms does not mean we are free to do what we wish.
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This is bad interpretation of what I said. Read the general instructions in the biginning of GIRM, which has been referenced many times. I think somewhere about #30- 45. There are options, but be reasonable in you choices.
 
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aljamieson:
Our Bishop recently published the liturgical norms for our Diocese. They go into effect on March 24th.

They state that holding hands during the Our Father is “not in the Order of the Mass.” He leaves it at that. My reading is that he doesn’t approve of holding hands, but that he isn’t going to interfere dramatically if it goes on.

Alan
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That’s the part that I don’t get. I thought that the priest was the authority figure in the church. Just coming in, though, so maybe I am misinformed. But, it seems like he should be leading the congregation, and not just leaving us to our own intentions. That is why some churches have people waving at each other across the center aisle, and walking around to shake as many hands as they can during the sign of peace. That’s why people are going up to receive blessings, switching lines, etc. during the receiving of the Eucharist. There has to be order when there are that many people with differering personalities, views, senitments, etc. We need a strong leader, and we need to be well informed as to what is actually written. It seems almost selfish to know that something is not in the order of the Mass, but to do it anyway because it feels good.
 
Concerning holding hands in the Eucharistic Liturgy the Congregation for Divine Worship in Rome responded as follows:
QUERY: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon’s invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord’s Prayer. Is this acceptable? REPLY: The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: “Let us offer each other the sign of peace” should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated: Notitiae 11 (1975) 226. Notitiae is the journal of the Congregation in which its official interpretations of the rubrics are published.]
Code: 
   While this addresses the holding of hands at the Sign of Peace the reasons given apply also elsewhere in the Mass, including at the Our Father.
  1. It is an inappropriate “sign,” since Communion is the sign of intimacy. Thus, a gesture of intimacy is introduced both before the sign of reconciliation (the Sign of Peace), but more importantly, before Holy Communion, the sacramental sign of communion/intimacy within the People of God.
  2. It is introduced on personal initiative. The Holy See has authority over the liturgy according to Vatican II’s “Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy” #22 and canon 838 of the Code of Canon Law.
This gesture has come into widespread use, often leaving bishops and pastors at a loss as to how to reverse the situation. For individuals, I would recommend closed eyes and a prayerful posture as sufficient response, rather than belligerence. Most laity, and probably many priests, are blind to the liturgical significance of interrupting the flow of the Mass in this way. It is not necessary to lose one’s peace over this or be an irritation to others. Some proportion is required. If asked why you don’t participate, simply, plainly and charitably tell the questioner of your discovery. If some chance of changing the practice is possible talk to the pastor or work with other laity through the parish council. You can also write the bishop, as is your right in the case of any liturgical abuse not resolved at the parish level. If your judgment is that no change is possible then I believe you are excused from further fraternal correction.
Code: 
           Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL
ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp
 
I normally keep my hands folded and head bowed. However, I will make the occasional exception to hold hands if there is a fine-looking girl sitting next to me!
 
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fix:
Concerning holding hands in the Eucharistic Liturgy the Congregation for Divine Worship in Rome responded as follows:QUERY: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon’s invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord’s Prayer. Is this acceptable? REPLY: The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: “Let us offer each other the sign of peace” should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated: Notitiae 11 (1975) 226. Notitiae is the journal of the Congregation in which its official interpretations of the rubrics are published.]

While this addresses the holding of hands at the Sign of Peace the reasons given apply also elsewhere in the Mass, including at the Our Father.
  1. It is an inappropriate “sign,” since Communion is the sign of intimacy. Thus, a gesture of intimacy is introduced both before the sign of reconciliation (the Sign of Peace), but more importantly, before Holy Communion, the sacramental sign of communion/intimacy within the People of God.
  2. It is introduced on personal initiative. The Holy See has authority over the liturgy according to Vatican II’s “Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy” #22 and canon 838 of the Code of Canon Law.
This gesture has come into widespread use, often leaving bishops and pastors at a loss as to how to reverse the situation. For individuals, I would recommend closed eyes and a prayerful posture as sufficient response, rather than belligerence. Most laity, and probably many priests, are blind to the liturgical significance of interrupting the flow of the Mass in this way. It is not necessary to lose one’s peace over this or be an irritation to others. Some proportion is required. If asked why you don’t participate, simply, plainly and charitably tell the questioner of your discovery. If some chance of changing the practice is possible talk to the pastor or work with other laity through the parish council. You can also write the bishop, as is your right in the case of any liturgical abuse not resolved at the parish level. If your judgment is that no change is possible then I believe you are excused from further fraternal correction.

Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL

ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp
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Many of you seem to think that EWTN is the final word—it is just another interpretation (what is STL?)

What about Archbishop Chaput ?

There is no official posture.
 
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Mysty101:
Many of you seem to think that EWTN is the final word—it is just another interpretation (what is STL?)

What about Archbishop Chaput ?

There is no official posture.
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Donovan is a theologian and obeys Rome. What has Chaput said?
 
Just came across this thread this morning over coffee. I can’t help but shake my head at all this nonsense. The Church and the Mass have been turned up side down since the introduction of the Novus Ordo in 1969. Could anyone imagine discussing such questions as to what we should do with our hands during the “Our Father” at a Traditional Latin Mass (Mass of Pius V)?

Still shaking my head. When will all this insanity end?
 
I think we are experiencing the beginning of the end of insanity. The more people who become aware of what Rome actually says, and form their consciences to accept the directives, and actually start to hold pastors accountable in the role in which God has placed them, we will see a change, a return to true reverence. Actually, even though I am a newbie, in spite of the abuses, I am seeing a real effort on the part of many cradle Catholics and converts to return to their first love-Jesus Christ. A true selfless and sacrificial worship should be the goal of all of us. We spend 6 days a week engaged in activities that we design. Can’t we give over at least one hour a week to worship without trying to redesign the Mass to suit our own personal tastes? I am glad to see people questioning questionable practices.
 
Reverence, now we are getting somewhere. I still do not like the interruption of the sign of peace and I do not hold my hands upright during the Our Father.

I think the Church should launch a campaign to restore reverence to the three principle parts of the Mass, especially during the Consecration. People are going in at out at all times of the Mass. I can remember my mother telling everyone to go to the bathroom before we left for church. When we took our kids and now our grandkids we did the same. If the little ones ask to go to the bathroom we tell them to wait till we get back home. It seems to be an excuse for kids to wander in and out of the Mass. Also there is talking during the Consecration and the ever present ring of beepers and cell phones. There is little consideration for those who are trying to really participate fully in the Mass.
 
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Marsu54:
Reverence, now we are getting somewhere. I still do not like the interruption of the sign of peace and I do not hold my hands upright during the Our Father.

I think the Church should launch a campaign to restore reverence to the three principle parts of the Mass, especially during the Consecration. People are going in at out at all times of the Mass. I can remember my mother telling everyone to go to the bathroom before we left for church. When we took our kids and now our grandkids we did the same. If the little ones ask to go to the bathroom we tell them to wait till we get back home. It seems to be an excuse for kids to wander in and out of the Mass. Also there is talking during the Consecration and the ever present ring of beepers and cell phones. There is little consideration for those who are trying to really participate fully in the Mass.
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I agree that there are those present in church who show little consideration for those trying to really participate in the Mass. I see a real lack of reverence, which is not for me to judge. However, when that lack of reverence interferes with my worship time, it bothers me. Luckily, I am attending Mass at a parish where the priest gives directives to the congregation. Every Mass the music minister reminds us to turn off our cell phones or pagers, or put them on vibrate. The priest reminds us to keep silent upon leaving the church after Mass. He also reminds us to refrain from speaking during the consecration. As a matter of fact, several people were ruffled by his directives and have changed churches. There are some who still do the hand thing during the Our Father, but several have left. I pray that God will continue to strengthen him and other priests to be strong enough not to let us have our own way.
 
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