But here’s the thing: what difference do the citations from these later times make? After all, by that point in time, there was already (according to Catholic apologetics (which, for some reason, is ‘banned’ (LOL!) in this thread?) and endorsed by the magisterium) the interpretation of the primacy of Peter. These writers aren’t the magisterium, so how can we look at them as if they were? More to the point, we know that some of them erred on other counts, too (e.g., Paschasius locates the ‘image of God’ in physical bodies, Rupert’s Eucharistic theology does not jive with transubstantiation).
Pope Sylvester II found nothing wrong with Paschasius’ views with regards to transubstantiation. Any concern is nothing more than a misreading that focuses on a few lines of his and not his work in its entirety. He is a well-revered saint in both Orthodoxy and Catholicism.
Rupert wasn’t correct on everything. But if you mean to declare that he was therefore out of step on every single theological issue, you would be mistaken; especially this one which jives very closely with the interpretations of Saint Bruno of Segni (
#19), Saint Hrabanus Maurus (
#19 and
#38), and of course Saint Paschasius Radbertus (
#18).
As for Catholic apologetics, they aren’t banned in this thread. All the OP is asking for is that if any Catholic wants to use Church Fathers or saints to advance their view of Matthew 16, then they should do serious research on the matter rather than copy and pasting one or two lines that they ripped from a blog somewhere. See the Patrologia Latina (PL:
See Wiki Index of Authors), which has a lot of these texts is freely available on Google Books. There is also the
Monumenta Germaniae Historica, which is more modern but requires knowledge of German to navigate in addition to Latin to read. These are excellent resources for those who know Latin. Alternatively, the out-dated
Catholic Encyclopedia Online holds a ton of English translations (decent but not perfect) of Catholic and Orthodox saints and Fathers. For those who lack Latin or German, I would recommend that they use the CE translations, which are freely available as are the other resources. If we’re going to have a serious discussion and debate, then we should use these resources because they provide original and primary historical documents. Furthermore, we should quote them and read them in their full appropriate contexts. That’s all that was asked of by the OP.
So, what import do we impute to these non-magisterial writers? Can we really point to them and attempt to assert that their views represent the mainstream of Christian thought?
On what basis do you think that non-magisterial writers are not mainstream? The Latin Church was always more than the Roman Church. The history of Western Christendom is not just the history of the Church of Rome. That’s something Peter Brown quite convincingly displayed, when he wrote
The Rise of Western Christendom. Not to mention the fact that almost every major theological issue and controversy during the Early Middle Ages in Western Europe was settled not by the pope, but by the Frankish Church (such as Predestination, Adoptionism, and even Iconoclasm - because the majority of the West didn’t accept II Nicaea until long afterwards; they held their own councils on the issue). It is also telling that the standardization of the Latin Vulgate was carried out by the Frankish Church, not the Church of Rome. We have to look wider, otherwise we miss out on serious historical issues as well as a treasure trove of writings left by venerable men.
That doesn’t seem to make sense: you’re claiming that, only
after Orthodoxy and Catholicism split, was there the later assertion of Petrine supremacy? That these writers (from ca 800-1200 AD) preceded the definition as the Church holds it today? If that were the case, then why the Orthodox/Catholic split? If there were no definition already in place, then why split over the argument?
No, I am claiming that this rock business that everyone keeps talking about is a later historical innovation that is probably post-schism. As for the roots of the split, they can be found in beginning in the 9th century with Pope Nicholas I. However, keep in mind that the Petrine Primacy that Nicholas advocated was significantly different from the Petrine primacy that Pope Gregory VII advocated.
These other topics are well-worth discussing, but for another thread, should anyone care to start it. (I’m stressing this not for you, but for everyone else who might like to change topics). It involves a lot of non-exegetical discussion, which would bring us away from the matters involving the scriptures of both Matthew and Luke.
In a future post, I will add one other pre-800 author since it seems that you would like for that to happen. This would bring up the tally of authors I have cited from before c. 800 to two, the first of which was Jerome.