The Papacy and the Patriarch of Constantinople

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Sorry, I don’t have the article, but I read in my diocese’s newspaper that the Patriarch of Constantinople apparently gave a talk/homily usually given by the Holy Father during a meeting of Cardinals at the Sistine Chapel. I believe this was last month.

Has anyone else heard anything about this? Also, would love to hear any news relating to relations between the two “lungs” of the Church, as John Paul the Great put it.

Hopefully waiting the reunification of all Christians.
Stephen
 
3Sanctus said:
Sorry, I don’t have the article, but I read in my diocese’s newspaper that the Patriarch of Constantinople apparently gave a talk/homily usually given by the Holy Father during a meeting of Cardinals at the Sistine Chapel. I believe this was last month.

Has anyone else heard anything about this? Also, would love to hear any news relating to relations between the two “lungs” of the Church, as John Paul the Great put it.

Hopefully waiting the reunification of all Christians.
Stephen
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The Patriarch of Costantinople is not part of the “second lung” of the church… the 22 Churches Sui Iuris of the 5 Eastern Rites are, but the “Two lungs” are Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics, not Catholics and Orthodox.
 
I guess that’s what I get for being too verbose, a lesson in humility from Our Lord. Thank you for correcting me, Aramis.
 
I agree with brother Aramis. The two lungs are IDEALLY, the Western and Eastern (which includes the Orientals in this case) Traditions, regardless of Church affiliation.

But the REALITY of the two lungs is only truly and fully lived within the Catholic Church.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Aramis said:
The Patriarch of Costantinople is not part of the “second lung” of the church… the 22 Churches Sui Iuris of the 5 Eastern Rites are, but the “Two lungs” are Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics, not Catholics and Orthodox.
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WRONG!!!. Ancient Sees of the Church. Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, and “Constantinople”. Get your facts straight!. There is more than two lungs. Before the first schism we had a Pentarchy!. Patriarch of Rome, Patriarch of Alexandria, Patriarch of Antioch, Patriarch of Jerusalem, and Patriarch of Constantinople. Remember Emperor Constantine moved the capital of Rome to Constantinople.
 
“Thou art Petros (Rock), and upon that rock I will build my church.”

The petrine office is the key to the church.

The pentarchy was only valid and viable when/while in union with Rome.

The Two lungs metaphor is JP II’s, and he was explicit that it was the EC and Latins. Heck, the Latins alone number more than all the EC’s and EOC combined.

Hopefully, those missing lobes will come back to working with the rest of the body of Christ… but at the momement, they are in material schism, and at times, engage in heresy. (Rebaptism of the baptized, ignoring the prescriptions of an ecumenical council or 3…)
 
bkovacs said:
WRONG!!!. Ancient Sees of the Church. Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, and “Constantinople”. Get your facts straight!. There is more than two lungs. Before the first schism we had a Pentarchy!. Patriarch of Rome, Patriarch of Alexandria, Patriarch of Antioch, Patriarch of Jerusalem, and Patriarch of Constantinople. Remember Emperor Constantine moved the capital of Rome to Constantinople.
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Wrong, Imperial nastolgia on your part. Originally the three Petrine sees held the authority: Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch in that order.

Despite there being several important sees with differing liturgical rites in the East as you mention, they all have a common theology and spirituality that sets them apart from the Catholic West.
 
Aramis said:
The Patriarch of Costantinople is not part of the “second lung” of the church… the 22 Churches Sui Iuris of the 5 Eastern Rites are, but the “Two lungs” are Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics, not Catholics and Orthodox.
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So if you’re right Aramis, why would he be referring to the ECC if the ECC is already in communion with Rome???

Please cite backup that justifies your comment.

Thanks
 
Aramis said:
The Patriarch of Costantinople is not part of the “second lung” of the church… the 22 Churches Sui Iuris of the 5 Eastern Rites are, but the “Two lungs” are Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics, not Catholics and Orthodox.
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I would agree with the present Pope and Pope John Paul II on this.
In an address to the Eastern Orthodox Archbishop of Cyprus, Pope Benedict XVI invoked the language of Pope John Paul II and clearly refers to the Eastern Orthodox Church as one of the two lungs of the Church:

“Thank you, Your Beatitude, for this gesture of esteem and brotherly friendship. In you, I greet the Pastor of an ancient and illustrious Church, a shining tessera of that bright mosaic, the East, which, to use a favourite phrase of the Servant of God John Paul II of venerable memory, constitutes one of the two lungs with which the Church breathes.”
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2007/june/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20070616_chrysostomos-ii_en.html
 
So…has anyone heard about the incident that the OP is asking about? I haven’t, but it sounds interesting.
 
Alexius said:
So…has anyone heard about the incident that the OP is asking about? I haven’t, but it sounds interesting.
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It was during the XII Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops (of the Catholic Church, East and West), meeting from October 5 through 26, 2008, when EP Bartholomew delivered his speech on the 18th of October as an invited guest.

The full text of the Patriarch’s speech:

vatican.va/news_services/press/sinodo/documents/bollettino_22_xii-ordinaria-2008/02_inglese/b30_02.html#SPEECH_BY_THE_ECUMENICAL_PATRIARCH_BARTHOLOMEW_I
 
The Oriental Orthodox who belong to the original Ancient churches does not hold to this “so-called” Pentarchy. They would see it as an Innovation. they only believe in the 3 sees of St. Peter
bkovacs said:
WRONG!!!. Ancient Sees of the Church. Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, and “Constantinople”. Get your facts straight!. There is more than two lungs. Before the first schism we had a Pentarchy!. Patriarch of Rome, Patriarch of Alexandria, Patriarch of Antioch, Patriarch of Jerusalem, and Patriarch of Constantinople. Remember Emperor Constantine moved the capital of Rome to Constantinople.
Click to expand...
 
Aramis said:
The Patriarch of Costantinople is not part of the “second lung” of the church… the 22 Churches Sui Iuris of the 5 Eastern Rites are, but the “Two lungs” are Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics, not Catholics and Orthodox.
Click to expand...
Pope John Paul II is very clear in stressing that the two lungs of the Church consists of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. This is clear in his encyclical “Ut Unum Sint”. I believe it is best to read it as this is what is taught by the Catholic Church, and not just mere opinion.
 
Amadeus said:
It was during the XII Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops (of the Catholic Church, East and West), meeting from October 5 through 26, 2008, when EP Bartholomew delivered his speech on the 18th of October as an invited guest.

The full text of the Patriarch’s speech:

vatican.va/news_services/press/sinodo/documents/bollettino_22_xii-ordinaria-2008/02_inglese/b30_02.html#SPEECH_BY_THE_ECUMENICAL_PATRIARCH_BARTHOLOMEW_I
Click to expand...
Thank you for the link. He gave wonderful speech. A beautiful expression of the living word.
 
marlo said:
The Oriental Orthodox who belong to the original Ancient churches does not hold to this “so-called” Pentarchy. They would see it as an Innovation. they only believe in the 3 sees of St. Peter
Click to expand...
So why do they place so much stress on retaining access to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem?
 
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