The Paradox of Adam - A Catholic Theological Conundrum

[DeepDeepTrouble3]

Adam’s sin is greater than all other sin because he let sin into this world. He is the proto-sinner, unbaptized. Yet, we have tradition, that Christ died to free Adam. What does that say about all the other unbaptized souls who are in hell or purgatory?

 

[TK421]

Hi Eli,

I didn’t know this was a conundrum. It has always been assumed that various figures in the Old Testament were saved (or rather, were awaiting the Anointed to “unlock the Gates” but were already in a state of peace & glory).

I never heard of that idea that Adam’s Sin was greater than any other sin. He was, after all, as human as anybody else. Is this something a Father of the Church talked about?

 

[Vico]

Adam’s sin is greater than all other sin because he let sin into this world. He is the proto-sinner, unbaptized. Yet, we have tradition, that Christ died to free Adam. What does that say about all the other unbaptized souls who are in hell or purgatory?

Adam was not unbaptized for he was constituted in a state of original justice. The original justice requires what is supernatural.

1 Cor 15

45 The first man Adam was made into a living soul; the last Adam into a quickening spirit. 46 Yet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; afterwards that which is spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, earthly: the second man, from heaven, heavenly.

 

[DeepDeepTrouble3]

Adam is the proto-sinner. Without his sin, there would have been no other sin in future after Adam. There is sin in this world because of Adam and Eve.

 

[DeepDeepTrouble3]

After Adam’s being thrown from the Garden of Eden, we have no tradition that he baptized himself.

 

[TK421]

Right, but if Adam didn’t do it, I would have.

 

[DeepDeepTrouble3]

That is not tradition.

 

[DeepDeepTrouble3]

That is not tradition.

Adam is responsible for Original Sin, and my Baptism.

 

[DeepDeepTrouble3]

It has always been assumed that various figures in the Old Testament were saved (or rather, were awaiting the Anointed to “unlock the Gates” but were already in a state of peace & glory).

Could you supply some evidence that “it has always been assumed that various figures of the Old Testament were saved?”

 

[Shakuhachi]

Adam’s sin is greater than all other sin because he let sin into this world. He is the proto-sinner, unbaptized. Yet, we have tradition, that Christ died to free Adam. What does that say about all the other unbaptized souls who are in hell or purgatory?

Why dont you tell us what you think it says?

 

[Kei]

Adam was created before the establishment of the Sacrament of Baptism. Him and any old testament figures cannot be used to make a statement on a post saved world.
I feel you are being overly literal. Christ died and saved us all, the whole of Creation was renewed in God’s saving acts. Hence Resurrection Sunday the 8th day, the new day in the history of Creation.

 

[Vico]

After Adam’s being thrown from the Garden of Eden, we have no tradition that he baptized himself.

There is baptism of water, baptism of blood, and baptism of desire. All of these have the common element of bringing sanctifying grace to one that does not have it. When Adam and Eve were constituted in original justice (that was before their fall) they received sanctifying grace. That is why it is a kind of baptism, like the baptism of water, or blood, or of desire.

 

[fhansen]

Adam’s sin is greater than all other sin because he let sin into this world. He is the proto-sinner, unbaptized. Yet, we have tradition, that Christ died to free Adam. What does that say about all the other unbaptized souls who are in hell or purgatory?

We’re expected to obey Jesus’ commands to the extent that 1) we’re aware of them (we possess knowledge), and 2) we have the means or capability. Culpability for sins of omission are based on these criteria, to name two. But aside from that, Baptism is a New `Covenant command.

 

[fhansen]

Could you supply some evidence that “it has always been assumed that various figures of the Old Testament were saved?”

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was “raised from the dead” presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.478 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.479 [ref 1 Pet 3:18-19]

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483

634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."484 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."485 Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."486 Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."487

Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."488

 

[fhansen]

Adam is the proto-sinner. Without his sin, there would have been no other sin in future after Adam. There is sin in this world because of Adam and Eve.

According to Aquinas, Adam’s sin was not the most grievous of sins, even though it was the original sin that opened the door to all following sins. Rape or murder, for example, are more grievous-or grave.

 

[Hereiam]

The most wonderful thing about Adam’s sin is God’s forgiveness to Adam and Eve, and to us.

 

[DeepDeepTrouble3]

I understand that Abrahams Bosom was a place of waiting before Christ opening Heaven after His Crucifixion.

 

[DeepDeepTrouble3]

Can it be defended that because Adam will be atoned for at the second coming, every lesser sin than protosin, will also be forgiven?

 

[BlackFriar]

Adam was not unbaptized

Thats a new one.
Who baptised him and when?

 

[Vico]

Vico:

Adam was not unbaptized

Thats a new one.
Who baptised him and when?

Not by water, as explained in an earlier post. The were constituted in the state of one that has been baptized.

Catechism

375 The Church, interpreting the symbolism of biblical language in an authentic way, in the light of the New Testament and Tradition, teaches that our first parents, Adam and Eve, were constituted in an original “state of holiness and justice”. 250 This grace of original holiness was “to share in. . .divine life”.251