The "Participation" Myth

[Denise1957]

Whether they are unusual or not is irrelevant to the statement made that the OF was somehow structurally deficient in this regard. The OF does have built-in places for sacred silence, and the rubrics in fact call for them as my quote shows. The monks are simply following the rubrics to a T, which is what they do, being superb liturgists.

If it isn’t the case in the average parish, then it’s an issue of discipline and not any inherent defect of the form of the Mass. That today that the EF is celebrated with great reverence is largely because the priests that do so, are doing so out of love for that form of the Mass, have undertaken to celebrate it or belong to societies that have as mandate to preserve the rite, and quite rightly they apply themselves. At the monastery, the monks are filled with the same love of the Mass and desire to see it out correctly. Except that it’s the OF Mass. But they do celebrate it with great care and discipline, flowing from their love of Christ.

If the EF were the normative Mass everywhere, I rather doubt that priests who don’t follow OF rubrics now would be any more inclined to follow EF rubrics, and priests who are simply sloppy would have much more opportunity for mistakes. Lack of discipline now seems endemic in our culture and our Church seems to be reflecting that sometimes.

Between, say the FSSP celebrating the EF and the monks celebrating the OF there is very little difference; they are really both sides of the same coin. Both are acting out of love of God, discipline and an authentic attention to the details of the liturgy borne out of their calling to obedience.

Thanks - I didn’t realize that the rubrics call for silences at the times that you mentioned. But I don’t neccesarily attribute lack of discipline to those priests who don’t follow the rubrics regarding the silences. They might have other reasons for not having those moments of silence - such as (and I’m only guessing here) not knowing exactly what the rubrics call for, or worrying about what the laity will think of having those silences, or maybe they worry that the silences will increase the length of the Mass. Or something like that. The priests at the OF that I attend are very diligent and devout men. But they don’t allow for much silence in the Mass. I assume that they have their reasons.

In the EF (and I don’t want to suggest deficiency in the OF - it’s just different) the faithful in the pew do not sing hymns, from what I recall, except for the entrance and end-of-Mass hymn. The choir (not the faithful) sings the offeratory and communion hymns, therefore allowing the faithful a time of relection and adoration at those times. Again, not to disparage the OF. Just pointing out a real difference.

 

[Lormar]

One of the things that absolutely bothers me endlessly is the idea that one needs to be shouting from the rooftops (so to speak) in order to participate in Mass.

The popular idea tends to be that one must say all of the responses and sing all of the songs, otherwise you’re not participating. That the entire Mass needs to be catered to the need for exterior participation, otherwise, people aren’t participating.

So why do the externals count so much to these people? If someone follows the Mass and prays interiorly aren’t they participating in offering their prayers to the sacrifice on the altar? If someone reads the words to the prayers and songs in their mind, aren’t they participating interiorly by offering the prayer?

If someone wants to sing, then they can sing, but we shouldn’t judge others if they don’t want to sing. In the same way, we shouldn’t restrict the types of music that are sung/played during mass so that the people have to participate in every song. Doesn’t hearing Gregorian Chant or Polyphony lift up the spirit to God? Maybe for some even more so than a standard hymn. So isn’t just the act of actively hearing a form of participation?

How about the words, the responses? We’ve all seen the people who go to Mass and never even open their lips, are they not participating in the Mass? Maybe they are bored out of their minds and don’t want to be there. But what if that person just likes to say all of the responses interiorly? What if that person even says all of the words of the priest interiorly? What if that person offers up many prayers throughout the Mass for the sacrifice at hand? Are they not participating? Why judge these people?

I think the myth of an absolute need for exterior participation is something that really needs to be done away with. Instead we should stress active participation in whatever way helps you connect with the Lord in the Mass. That could be interior or exterior prayer.

However, let’s not forget that one can easily be saying all of the words and singing all of the songs and not be participating at all! Who’s ever prayed a Rosary and not started thinking about everything else but the Rosary? Isn’t it the same thing with the Mass? Sure I’ll sing the songs, say the responses, then get up and receive Communion, but I’m really thinking about what I’m going to do after Mass or people watching.

What’s going on inside is much more important than the outside. Sometimes both go together. Some people may feel more of a spiritual connection from the exterior participation and some may get nothing from it at all. It is important to remember. This goes for whichever form of the Mass that you like and in whatever language you hear it in.

I’m always grateful to persons who are able to put into words what I cannot.

 

[Brendan_64]

Hearing, or listening, to someone does not mean that you are actively communicating with them. Our interior disposition will be reflected in our exterior words and deeds.

Do we go to Mass to communicate with those around us, or do we go to Mass to have an encounter with God? If it is the latter then I’m sure God will be well aware out our interior disposition without us having to necessarily express this disposition through words and deeds.

 

[zab]

One of the things that absolutely bothers me endlessly is the idea that one needs to be shouting from the rooftops (so to speak) in order to participate in Mass.

The popular idea tends to be that one must say all of the responses and sing all of the songs, otherwise you’re not participating. That the entire Mass needs to be catered to the need for exterior participation, otherwise, people aren’t participating.

So why do the externals count so much to these people? If someone follows the Mass and prays interiorly aren’t they participating in offering their prayers to the sacrifice on the altar? If someone reads the words to the prayers and songs in their mind, aren’t they participating interiorly by offering the prayer?

If someone wants to sing, then they can sing, but we shouldn’t judge others if they don’t want to sing. In the same way, we shouldn’t restrict the types of music that are sung/played during mass so that the people have to participate in every song. Doesn’t hearing Gregorian Chant or Polyphony lift up the spirit to God? Maybe for some even more so than a standard hymn. So isn’t just the act of actively hearing a form of participation?

How about the words, the responses? We’ve all seen the people who go to Mass and never even open their lips, are they not participating in the Mass? Maybe they are bored out of their minds and don’t want to be there. But what if that person just likes to say all of the responses interiorly? What if that person even says all of the words of the priest interiorly? What if that person offers up many prayers throughout the Mass for the sacrifice at hand? Are they not participating? Why judge these people?

I think the myth of an absolute need for exterior participation is something that really needs to be done away with. Instead we should stress active participation in whatever way helps you connect with the Lord in the Mass. That could be interior or exterior prayer.

However, let’s not forget that one can easily be saying all of the words and singing all of the songs and not be participating at all! Who’s ever prayed a Rosary and not started thinking about everything else but the Rosary? Isn’t it the same thing with the Mass? Sure I’ll sing the songs, say the responses, then get up and receive Communion, but I’m really thinking about what I’m going to do after Mass or people watching.

What’s going on inside is much more important than the outside. Sometimes both go together. Some people may feel more of a spiritual connection from the exterior participation and some may get nothing from it at all. It is important to remember. This goes for whichever form of the Mass that you like and in whatever language you hear it in.

Who’s judging?

 

[2HeartsSlave]

Might I suggest this in reference to the OP: as long as we don’t act unreasonably or disrespectfully, and as long as we don’t unduly distress out fellow worshippers, why don’t we each do what is most spiritually profitable for ourselves and allow others to do the same. I think this would solve a lot of problems. Let us bear in mind, after all, traditionally there are really no “rubrics” for lay worshipper at Mass, only customs.

 

[Corki]

Who’s judging?

I think the OP was referring to some recent threads here on CAF where some posters have claimed that it’s a sin to not sing all of the songs at Mass or not to say all of the prayers aloud. There have also been some posters who went so far as to say that if one doesn’t sing/pray aloud, one isn’t meeting their Sunday obligation.

 

[Brendan_64]

I think the OP was referring to some recent threads here on CAF where some posters have claimed that it’s a sin to not sing all of the songs at Mass or not to say all of the prayers aloud. There have also been some posters who went so far as to say that if one doesn’t sing/pray aloud, one isn’t meeting their Sunday obligation.

Community spirit and vibrancy must be enforced upon all.

 

[ProVobis]

Community spirit and vibrancy must be enforced upon all.

The obligation is to attend Mass on a Sunday or Sat night. If we’re lucky to find one where we can identify with the music and language, great. If not, the community need not force anything else. That would be arrogance, not Christian IMO.

 

[Brendan_64]

If not, the community need not force anything else. That would be arrogance, not Christian IMO.

But surely things like clapping and waving at your buddies are to be encouraged (if not insisted upon) in order to generate a good, happy, community feeling?

 

[Aramis]

To be clear, I always say the responses and typically sing when I go to the OF.

However, the fact is that a Mass can be completed without the participation of the laity. All that is needed is a priest, an altar, bread, and wine.

It is generally illicit to celebrate the mass without at least a second person.

CIC 906:
Can. 906 Except for a just and reasonable cause, a priest is not to celebrate the eucharistic sacrifice without the participation of at least some member of the faithful.

Just and reasonable cause, usually, is limited to a priest in solitary confinement, or to a priest about to go give unction who finds the tabernacle empty.

 

[TimothyH]

But surely things like clapping and waving at your buddies are to be encouraged (if not insisted upon) in order to generate a good, happy, community feeling?

Sarcasm is a hair’s breath away from condescension and insult. Others could say that the EF encourages people to be dour, monkish and introverted but no one is doing that. You’ve made your point re. vibrancy, community feeling, buddies, etc. We get it. We understand what you are saying.

You would be doing your own soul a favor now if you let the sarcasm end with this post. If you have nothing constructive or intelligent to add then it would be better for you and for the rest of us if you just went and read the Bible, or studied an encyclical on the Eucharist or found an adoration chapel to go to, or took a nap.

-Tim-

 

[pnewton]

I hope you don’t mind if I suggest that perhaps the long silences at the times you’ve mentioned above are a bit unusual?

Silence is always part of the Mass. It is the norm. It’s in the GIRM. Long? Now that is surely a relative term, but we need to turn to the GIRM for the norm. Anecdotal experience varies too much from person to person. In our diocese, there are mandated periods.

 

[Brendan_64]

Sarcasm is a hair’s breath away from condescension and insult. Others could say that the EF encourages people to be dour, monkish and introverted but no one is doing that. You’ve made your point re. vibrancy, community feeling, buddies, etc. We get it. We understand what you are saying.

You would be doing your own soul a favor now if you let the sarcasm end with this post. If you have nothing constructive or intelligent to add then it would be better for you and for the rest of us if you just went and read the Bible, or studied an encyclical on the Eucharist or found an adoration chapel to go to, or took a nap.

-Tim-

Ok fair enough, point taken. I was just attempting to lighten things up a bit with some British humour. We do like our sarcasm here in the UK. No offence intended.

I’m off to take a nap now (as most of the adoration chapels in my vicinity are closed at this time of day)

Apologies for any offence caused.

 

[OraLabora]

I’m off to take a nap now (as most of the adoration chapels in my vicinity are closed at this time of day)

Yes I heard that the pubs keep funny hours in the UK

 

[2HeartsSlave]

Ok fair enough, point taken. I was just attempting to lighten things up a bit with some British humour. We do like our sarcasm here in the UK. No offence intended.

I’m off to take a nap now (as most of the adoration chapels in my vicinity are closed at this time of day)

Apologies for any offence caused.

Hey, I think you’re funny…if only the points you were making weren’t so sad

 

[pnewton]

I think the OP was referring to some recent threads here on CAF where some posters have claimed that it’s a sin to not sing all of the songs at Mass or not to say all of the prayers aloud. There have also been some posters who went so far as to say that if one doesn’t sing/pray aloud, one isn’t meeting their Sunday obligation.

Perhaps I should have addressed the spirit of the OP instead of the terminology. I do not remember anyone saying that a person failed to meet their Sunday obligation, though I could have missed that part, but I do see why someone might have felt judged.

I have been writing only of principles. There should never be a cause to judge another’s level of participation in Mass. There are just too many factors that we cannot know, some physical, some psychological, some cultural, etc.

Even if we could know all that was going on with a person, judgment still would be impossible. As Pro Vobis said, we have not all taken the same prerequisite courses. People are sinners, even in Mass. That’s why we are there. God alone judges our heart and he judges those who have been give much with a higher standard.

I personally thing it is largely a cultural issue. Growing up in a Baptist Church, everyone sang, or at least tried to move their lips and whisper to fit in. When we the National Anthem was sung, all sung with it. Now ninety percent just stand around and listen. I do not get it, but things have changed. In the GIRM we find the laity give response to say corporately. There really is something special about corporate unity, many speaking (or singing) as one. I hope we can regain someday what we have lost.

 

[Brendan_64]

Yes I heard that the pubs keep funny hours in the UK

I’ve been rumbled

 

[Lormar]

Sarcasm is a hair’s breath away from condescension and insult.** Others could say that the EF encourages people to be dour, monkish and introverted but no one is doing that.** You’ve made your point re. vibrancy, community feeling, buddies, etc. We get it. We understand what you are saying.

You would be doing your own soul a favor now if you let the sarcasm end with this post. If you have nothing constructive or intelligent to add then it would be better for you and for the rest of us if you just went and read the Bible, or studied an encyclical on the Eucharist or found an adoration chapel to go to, or took a nap.

-Tim-

Timothy, that and worse has been said in the past, and I hope that if anyone ever does again, you will take them to task as well.

I’m off to say the Little Crown of the Twelve Stars of the Blessed Virgin Mary. I don’t do naps, and it is snowing here which discourages travel to the Adoration Chapel. But I do have a Holy Bible.

 

[janeway529]

I hope you don’t mind if I suggest that perhaps the long silences at the times you’ve mentioned above are a bit unusual? I’ve attended a lot of parishes that offer the OF in the past year, and this isn’t the norm for the most part. Not that that’s a bad thing. I was just initially suggesting a reason why there wasn’t more active participation in the OF. I was trying to be sincere - really! No need for a slugfest.

Not unusual. It’s standard at the several parishes I’ve been around my diocese, even the most vibrant and charismatic parishes.

 

[marci]

“Active participation does not preclude the active passivity of silence, stillness and listening: indeed, it demands it.” --Pope John Paul II