The Perfect Joy of St. Francis

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Just ordered the book! Waiting patiently…I think I will spend some time away from CAF 🙂 From what I have been reading from Brother Jay and info on sites I find my spirituality and approach is very close to St. Francis although lately I have been more St. Dominic like if that makes any sense. Just thought I’d learn more about my Patron. Thanks for making this thread Truelight and thank you Brother Jay for all your help and wealth of info!
 
Just ordered the book! Waiting patiently…I think I will spend some time away from CAF 🙂 From what I have been reading from Brother Jay and info on sites I find my spirituality and approach is very close to St. Francis although lately I have been more St. Dominic like if that makes any sense. Just thought I’d learn more about my Patron. Thanks for making this thread Truelight and thank you Brother Jay for all your help and wealth of info!
Awesome! Let us know when you get it.
 
Hmm. Yes and No. I understand the concept of trusting God for your everything. I also can see that the focus on attaining wealth can lead to distraction and focus on self instead of God.

I’m not so sure of the importance of poverty for salvation if that is true.

I believe also Br. JR, had said “poverty is holiness”. I might have missed the response, but I still need clarification on that.
Me too. I am very poor lol I am not even close to middle class, but I sure don’t feel holy. I also wonder is those born into wealth, are they less holy than one who lives in poverty?
To understand poverty, one has to understand the Incarnation. The Second Person of the Trinity takes on human nature out of pure love, not out of need. He has no need to do so and gains nothing from it. The incarnation is neither a need nor a commodity. It is truly an emptying of self on the part of God in order to become one with humanity for the sake of humanity.

Evangelical poverty imitates the poverty of the Eternal Logos. It is different from poverty that results from injustice and sin. It is a deliberate and free choice on the part of man to let go and to give up not only material wealth, power, and ambition, but also a choice to graciously accept whatever God gives and graciously give whatever God takes.

The wealthy man seeks to use his wealth and power for the benefit of Christ who comes to us in the distressing disguise of the poor, not for his own comfort and pleasures. The poor man works for what he needs without envying what the wealthy man has. The middle class man trims his attachment to material things, keeps in check his ambition for that which he does not need and avoids developing a sense of entitlement.

We’re not talking about poverty that results from corruption, sloth, irresponsibility, misuse of resources, and greed. This poverty is not pleasing to God, because it is the fruit of sin. Sin is never pleasing to God. The poverty of the saints is the same poverty as that of the Incarnate Son of God who being God does not esteem divinity something to be grasped at. He takes on the form of a slave. He is born in a stable. Is an immigrant in Egypt. Returns with his parents to Nazareth, which was a community of a few people living in huts, not the large city that we know today. He voluntarily surrenders to the authority of the day for judgment, albeit an unjust one. He gives up not only his power and right as Lord and Ruler of the world, but he also voluntarily sacrifices his human rights for the sake of love. Therefore, he is unjustly accused, judged and executed. The final act of detachment is to have no tomb in which to lay his head. He had said this to the Apostles, “The Son of Man has no place to lay his head.” Had he had a proper Nazarene burial, he would not have been buried in a case. The Nazarenes were too poor to own tombs. They buried their dead in the ground on the side of the road leading out of town. He is not even afforded a “proper” Nazarene burial. Instead, he’s buried in a borrowed tomb.

Evangelical poverty is the voluntary choice to live as Christ lived, surrendering whatever is necessary for the sake of love, mercy and justice.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Evangelical poverty is the voluntary choice to live as Christ lived, surrendering whatever is necessary for the sake of love, mercy and justice.
Amen. This is a nice segue to a beautiful quote by St. Francis in the book:
Love. Love is everything. Anybody can carry a candle in a procession or give money to the collection – that is nothing. The only thing that counts is to be joyful at all times with what we receive from God’s hand. That is love."
 
Quote: “Above all the graces and gifts of the Holy Spirit which Christ gives to His friends is that of conquering oneself and willingly enduring sufferings, insults, humiliations, and hardships for the love of Christ. For we cannot glory in all those other marvelous gifts of God, as they are not ours but God’s, as the Apostle says: 'What have you that you have not received?”

Can anyone help me understand what specifically we are meant to do as pertains to enduring hardships? Most hardships are temporary and tolerable and if we just grin and bear it, we get through it and forget soon that it happened. But what of those hardships that are permanent in our lives - that stand in the way of our functioning and doing those things we are responsible to do. I am thinking of the loss of a child, suffering a rape, mental illness and things of that nature.

I understand that we must bear our suffering but what I don’t understand is what the person is meant to actually do to be ABLE to bear it. Can anyone share wisdom on that question? This quote spoke to me but I don’t fully understand it.
 
formerlysure…I can share with you my own experiences and see if that helps. Years ago, when my daughter was a baby, she had an immune system disorder, and for a long time, I did not know whether she would live or not (she did). Watching her suffer was incredibly difficult. Among other issues, she would sometimes wake up soaked with blood on her face and in her hair which had come out of her mouth. To say the least, it was a tough situation. However, one day, by the grace of God, while she lay on the couch so sick, I suddenly experienced our crucified Lord somehow within her, and then came to understand very concretely how when I took care of her, I was also providing for our Good Lord in His Suffering. So, in alot of ways, the one most difficult thing I ever have experienced, turned out for me to be the one thing that also brought me closest to God. I also learned how to offer up pain for the well-being of others, and learned to trust that God would always bring such goodness out of life’s miseries. Also, I learned how to distinguish between physical difficulties and spiritual well-being, and to strongly believe that although I saw my daughter’s tiny body in such a compromised position, her spiritual life was very, very strong. I hope this helps…
Blessings…
 
Quote: “Above all the graces and gifts of the Holy Spirit which Christ gives to His friends is that of conquering oneself and willingly enduring sufferings, insults, humiliations, and hardships for the love of Christ. For we cannot glory in all those other marvelous gifts of God, as they are not ours but God’s, as the Apostle says: 'What have you that you have not received?”

Can anyone help me understand what specifically we are meant to do as pertains to enduring hardships? Most hardships are temporary and tolerable and if we just grin and bear it, we get through it and forget soon that it happened. But what of those hardships that are permanent in our lives - that stand in the way of our functioning and doing those things we are responsible to do. I am thinking of the loss of a child, suffering a rape, mental illness and things of that nature.

I understand that we must bear our suffering but what I don’t understand is what the person is meant to actually do to be ABLE to bear it. Can anyone share wisdom on that question? This quote spoke to me but I don’t fully understand it.
In order to understand what Francis is teaching here, we need some background information that Timmermans does not provide. Francis draws very heavily, not only from the Gospels, but from Paul and John’s letters.

He constantly reminds his audience (the brothers, nuns and laity) that we must conform to Christ in all things, including the cross. We know this is a very Pauline theme. We accept all suffering in union with Christ. It is also a very Pauline theme that we try to be as Christ was. I’ll be back to this.

Another of Francis’ favorite themes came from John. God is love and he who remains in love remains in God. While it is true that life throws much suffering at us, it is also true that we can use that suffering. Francis would be the first person to admit that life is not fair. However, God is very fair, because he is a loving God. Even though life may through us curve balls, God is always there for us. This is the point that St. John makes when he says, “remain in his love.”

We can do one of two things with suffering. Luke plays this out in the crudifixion narrative. On the one side we have a man who struggles with suffering and even offends the Lord. Then on the other side, we have the man who says, “Lord, **remember me **when thou shalt come into thy kingdom.”

I deliberately bolded in red the one part, because that’s the actual prayer. If you remember elementary school grammar

Lord = direct address

Remember me = complete sentences (subject and predicate)

when thou shalt come into thy kingdom = extended predicate

Now that we’ve had our grammar review for the day. Let’s look at this sentences. “Remember me.” Suffering can be turned into a prayer. When we turn it into a prayer . . .

Now let’s go back to Paul,

Our sffering becomes redemptive suffering and we are conformed to Christ…

Francis is pointing out some heavy duty theology here. In a nutshell, he’s saying that we all suffer. Life is not always fair. God knows this from personal experience. Jesus experienced injustice in life. He turned it into a prayer:

“Not my will, but your will be done.
Into your hands I commend my spirit.
Forgive them for they know not what they do.
Into your hands I commend my spirit.”

There is no anger at God or at man. What we see on the cross are two things:
  1. The Suffering Servant begs for the forgiveness of those who made him suffer.
  2. The Suffering Servant forgets his own suffering for a moment in order to console others who are suffering.
“Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.” (Lk 23: 43)

“Woman, behold thy son.” (Jn 19: 26)

He promises eternity to the man who asks to be remembered. He gives a son to his grieving mother.

This is where Francis is pointing us to. We can complain about our suffering, feel sorry for ourselves, resent those who hurt us, curse them, or we can conform to Christ and remain in his love by turning our suffering into redemptive love.

This does not mean that we do nothing to alleviate suffering. We know that Francis had eye surgery to alleviate his blindness, cared for lepers and fed the hungry. We know that Jesus healed the sick, fed the hungry and protected the vulnerable from bullies.

However, there are times, when we cannot change things. Then we have to make a choice. We can be the man who complained and challenged Jesus to get down from the cross and get him down as well or we can be the man who accepted that he was a sinner and his suffering was just, so he threw himself at the mercy of Christ, “Remember me.”

We can do what Francis did. He took Paul and John at their word. He conformed to Christ in all things, even to the cross and remained in his love by accepting suffering that he could not change, as justice for his sins and those of the world.

This is not a novelty. This is a theme that is found in Spiritual Theology from the Apostles to John Paul II. Man must choose how he deals with suffering. Indifference in the face of suffering is not part of our spiritual tradition.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
formerlysure…I can share with you my own experiences and see if that helps. Years ago, when my daughter was a baby, she had an immune system disorder, and for a long time, I did not know whether she would live or not (she did). Watching her suffer was incredibly difficult. Among other issues, she would sometimes wake up soaked with blood on her face and in her hair which had come out of her mouth. To say the least, it was a tough situation. However, one day, by the grace of God, while she lay on the couch so sick, I suddenly experienced our crucified Lord somehow within her, and then came to understand very concretely how when I took care of her, I was also providing for our Good Lord in His Suffering. So, in alot of ways, the one most difficult thing I ever have experienced, turned out for me to be the one thing that also brought me closest to God. I also learned how to offer up pain for the well-being of others, and learned to trust that God would always bring such goodness out of life’s miseries. Also, I learned how to distinguish between physical difficulties and spiritual well-being, and to strongly believe that although I saw my daughter’s tiny body in such a compromised position, her spiritual life was very, very strong. I hope this helps…
Blessings…
This is beautiful. If you have read any of the books on St. Francis. He refered to the lepers as “Our Christian Brothers.” He was not talking about the De la Salle Christian Brothers. That’s a relgiious congregation that would be born 500 years later.

He called the Lepers Christian because Christ was in them. Mother Teresa picked up on Francis’ words when she read his life and she said, “Christ comes to us in the distressing disguise of the poor.”

In other words, as you say, Christ is most present in the weakest and most vulnerable members of society. That’s why we must look at them as our Christian brothers and sisters. Resentment toward suffering only burns energy that is needed to love those who suffer and fills the heart with despair.

That why in our Franciscan tradition, while many people are running around upset about the evils around us and in the Church, Franciscans remain cool as cucumbers. Where there is suffering, there is Christ in need of love. We focus on the victim . . . Christ crucified, present in those who suffer. We confront the causes of suffering, without the resentment. The resentment, takes away from the ability to love.

That explains why Francis lived in such a corrupt world and Church without resentment. Resentment was a luxury he could not afford. If he allowed himself to feel resentment over the sufferings around him, he would have been blinded, but not by love. That’s the message of that statement. Don’t allow yourself to be blinded. Look and see the truth. The only thing that you can own is the result of sin, everything else comes from the love of God.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Would it also be true that we should examine, when faced with a particular suffering, whether its something we can change,and therefore have the duty to change it instead of carrying around lots of unnecessary crosses.
E.g. Someone gets very sick and has 2 options: suffer by accepting its God’s will, or go to the doctor and get anti-biotics,painkillers or whatever. Is medicine not a gift from God?
I ask this because i have a friend whose 3 yr old son got very sick, and instead of bringing him to the doctor, he spent the night praying.
Ignore this post if seems to de-rail.
 
Would it also be true that we should examine, when faced with a particular suffering, whether its something we can change,and therefore have the duty to change it instead of carrying around lots of unnecessary crosses.
E.g. Someone gets very sick and has 2 options: suffer by accepting its God’s will, or go to the doctor and get anti-biotics,painkillers or whatever. Is medicine not a gift from God?
I ask this because i have a friend whose 3 yr old son got very sick, and instead of bringing him to the doctor, he spent the night praying.
Ignore this post if seems to de-rail.
In the case of my child, there was a long process of trying to figure out what could be done to help alleviate unnecessary pain/suffering. And then came for me, the process of coming to peace with knowing I had done what I could and surrendering leftover doubt back to our Lord. This surrendering was important, because then I could focus on the Face of Christ in front of me. When I would wipe my child’s face clean, I participated with Veronica in wiping the Face of Jesus. And I participated with our Lady of Sorrows who watched her Precious Son suffer. This was a tremendous gift. Alot of beautiful moments. I think that what God wills for us all is to focus on His face despite the “stuff” that happens here on earth.
Blessings to all!
 
Thank you for your post Rainbow 1. I can relate to your insight regarding Our Lady of Sorrows. Can anyone here recommemd a good book on St Anthony of Padua?
 
Would it also be true that we should examine, when faced with a particular suffering, whether its something we can change,and therefore have the duty to change it instead of carrying around lots of unnecessary crosses.
E.g. Someone gets very sick and has 2 options: suffer by accepting its God’s will, or go to the doctor and get anti-biotics,painkillers or whatever. Is medicine not a gift from God?
I ask this because i have a friend whose 3 yr old son got very sick, and instead of bringing him to the doctor, he spent the night praying. Ignore this post if seems to de-rail.
Is that in some chronic diseases, you will suffer even if you do go to the doctor.

In the book, near the end of his life, St Francis was suffering quite a bit and didn’t want to go to the doctor. Finally, the then head of the brothers, Elias, insisted on it and he obeyed. It didn’t do much by this point, but doctors are there for a reason.

I know that Blessed John Paul II has doctors taking care of him.
In the case of my child, there was a long process of trying to figure out what could be done to help alleviate unnecessary pain/suffering. And then came for me, the process of coming to peace with knowing I had done what I could and surrendering leftover doubt back to our Lord. This surrendering was important, because then I could focus on the Face of Christ in front of me. When I would wipe my child’s face clean, I participated with Veronica in wiping the Face of Jesus. And I participated with our Lady of Sorrows who watched her Precious Son suffer. This was a tremendous gift. Alot of beautiful moments. I think that what God wills for us all is to focus on His face despite the “stuff” that happens here on earth.
Blessings to all!
God Bless you rainbow.
 
Would it also be true that we should examine, when faced with a particular suffering, whether its something we can change,and therefore have the duty to change it instead of carrying around lots of unnecessary crosses.
E.g. Someone gets very sick and has 2 options: suffer by accepting its God’s will, or go to the doctor and get anti-biotics,painkillers or whatever. Is medicine not a gift from God?
I ask this because i have a friend whose 3 yr old son got very sick, and instead of bringing him to the doctor, he spent the night praying.
Ignore this post if seems to de-rail.
Common sense and charity would dictate that you do what you can to relieve suffering. The saints were not opposed to common sense and charity.

At the end of his life, Francis accepts his suffering and refuses more cures, because he knows that he is dying. This is very important. Death is inevitable and immanent. The book is unable to show us this part of the thinking. It comes across as if he accelerated his death. This was not the case. He had been to doctors for his ailments. This is the difference between ordinary and extraordinary measures.

As long as we can save a life, relieve suffering and prolong a life, we must do it. We can, if it’s our own health, offer a sacrifice by not taking as many tylenols for that pesky pain and offer it up.

We can never allow ourselves to die, if there is the possibility to get well and live or at least, live longer. There is a difference.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Thank you all for very helpful questions and answers. I am working through a number of past hurts and in particular coping with a very violent rape in my past. A dear friend, when I spoke to him of this incident years ago, went to a priest to talk about his anger about what I had been through. My friend recently told me that the priest had told him that if my attackers did not repent they would be “salted with flames” in hell one day and that, in this way justice would be done, even though I have never been able to prosecute the men. My friend felt a desire to kill the two men who hurt me himself.

I am greatly touched by the love of the small handful of people I have told about this experience as each have wanted to do the same in protection of me and I know this impulse is an expression of love. On the other hand, I am glad it is only able to be rhetoric because the idea of justice in this situation leaves me cold (and I work in law - go figure!) I do not want anyone to suffer for what they have done to me. I want them only to see that what they did was wrong, and what it cost me and to be made human through that lesson. I want them to change and heal and repent. The only justice I want for myself is healing - I want to live my life, be able to have a normal relationship. I want an apology but accept I will never recieve one - I do not even know their identities.

I always thought these men, though they overpowered me completely and controlled me for hours, were acting from weakness and sickness rather than strength. I didn’t want them punished, just, if there is any small bit of God yet in either of them, I’d like them stopped and fixed - made strong and well and hopefully repentent. My counselor thinks that feeling sorry for these men is a result of their control over me, and part of their manipulation. I think it is simply humanity. I want them removed from society, I want the apology, I want them to go through a time of realization of what they’ve done and to feel what they put me through in that way – my hope is that these experiences would bring them closer to God and make them humane. I just have a hard time understanding the purpose of eternal punishment in hell.

Anyway - the learning and healing continue. I accept the suffering but part of the point of accepting it is to find a way to live with it, and therefore, I suppose, make it stop.
 
“To understand poverty, one has to understand the Incarnation.”

It will be awhile before I can get my face from the ground.

peace
 
What a joyful thread 🙂

Has anyone read Chesterton’s biography of St. Francis? I found this a wonderful read as well.

Does the book in question discuss the episode in St. Francis’ life where he tries to convert the Sultan? I seem to remember him joining the crusaders in Egypt and then crossing enemy lines not to kill but to preach and convert. He wasn’t successful in converting the Sultan but he made a deep impression on the man, and I believe this may be one reason the Franciscans were allowed to maintain the sites in the Holy Land even to this day.
 
I sort of stumbled into this thread or was guided to it and have been following closely. I have ordered the book. Thanks to all who have posted; I have found this to be a wonderful and informative thread.

Peace
 
What a joyful thread 🙂

Has anyone read Chesterton’s biography of St. Francis? I found this a wonderful read as well.

Does the book in question discuss the episode in St. Francis’ life where he tries to convert the Sultan? I seem to remember him joining the crusaders in Egypt and then crossing enemy lines not to kill but to preach and convert. He wasn’t successful in converting the Sultan but he made a deep impression on the man, and I believe this may be one reason the Franciscans were allowed to maintain the sites in the Holy Land even to this day.
Actually, Francis and the Sultan made an alliance that’s in place to this day. This was made in 1223, I believe. The brothers would be allowed to enter Jerusalem through what is today Egypt and Jordan. The Sultan also agree to repect the human rights of his Christian prisones of war and the Christians living in the region. Francis agree that the brothers would not proselytize the Muslims and the Jews. They would serve Christians, Jews and Muslims equally without preaching to them.

This agreement was approved by the pope. The Franciscan Province of the Middle East, became the Custody of the Holy Land. The friars were given control over the Custody and they answered dierctly to the Holy Father. The Custory still exists and the friars are still there.

Today, the run several ministries the help Muslim, Christian and Jewish families, most of whom are victims of war and poverty. It’s not my branch of the Franciscans. You can get more information on the Custody of the Holy Land by going to its site. But I also understand that they run family programs. Even though they have maintained their promise not to preach Christianity to Jews and Muslims, they are allowed to preach in their chapels and Christian sites. The friars do not dissuade Jews or Muslims from visiting and listening.

There are some interesting reports too. In those communities where there friars, Jews and Muslims work together, there are no political and ethnic conflicts. The three peples meet and work in peace. Muslim and Jewish people work with the friars to feed the hungry, educated the young and shelter those who are often left homeless by the constant wars in the region. Yet, the people who live in those areas where there is a Franciscan presence are neighbors and friends. That in itself is very much in keeping with Francis’ message of peace. The friars are doing exactly what Christ and the Apostles did. They preach to whomever wants to hear, but they also leave in peace those who, for whatever reason, choose to say away. In those cases they preach through their presence, which is a presence of love, charity and peace.

Many people become confused, because they believe that the only right thing for the friars to do is to try to convert the non Catholics. However, that’s not the way Francis saw it. His vision was that conversion begins with trust. You make a friend first. Once you make a friend, that friendship blossoms into brotherhood. God leads the way step by step. It may take a very long time. So be it. God will show the way. You just have to be present and let people feel and know that you bring the love of Christ. They know that the friars are Christians. That groundwork has been layed. The rest is a process and a journey.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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