The pill as abortifacient

[astegallrnc]

she_he:

actually everything i have read about the currently used IUDs they are not what you are implying,
they are inserted into the cervix, this causes a buildup of mucus which in turn causes the sperm to not be able to enter into the cervix to journey and meet up with an ovum.

An IUD/IUS is inserted into the uterus through the cervix.
There are two types of IUDs available in the US:
Paragard (Copper T 380A) contains copper
paragard.com/paragard/index.php
Mirena (contains progestin)
mirena-us.com/index.html

My sources state that currently the primary mechanism of action of IUDs is believed to be the production of an environment that is spermicidal. BUT, if fertilzation does take place, changes in the lining of the uterus would also prevent implantation.
Read the Patient Package Information and Prescribing Information on the two IUDs listed for more information.

things ingested during the month could also impair the effectivness of the pill one such impairment would be an antibiotic,this probably causes the most “unplanned fertilizations”
the way they are supposed to work is basically to “fool” the body into believing its already Pregnant,

Some antibiotics decrease the effectiveness. Are you stating that antibiotics probably result in most unplanned conceptions? I have never read this. It is usually theorized that the woman did not take her pills per instructions.

Autumn

 

[astegallrnc]

John, please know that it is not my intent to contradict you.

she_he:

you are very misinformed about the pill< there is a topic on the other uses of the pill and its allowance by the church in the apologetics area, but the “cramps” are not stomach acids as you have been blinded into believing,

I agree with Jennifer. She is stating that many doctors will prescribe pills without finding the underlying cause. I don’t think she is saying that gastric acids cause cramps. I believe she is stating that taking meds to decrease stomach acid doesn’t cure what’s causing the excess stomach acid. The symptom rather than the cause is being treated, which is sometimes the best that can be done. This is what happens when the pill or any hormonal contraceptive is used to treat the symptom(s) of a disese (endometriosis, fibroids, etc.)

lots of times this is the startings of a serious problem called “endometriosis” the pill is usually the first line defense in curing this problem, this is the bleeding of the OUTER uterine walls,

The Pope Paul VI Institute has amazing treatment and management of endometriosis, which is when the endometrial lining implants outside the uterus (ovaries, tubes, cervix, intestines, etc). The implants do bleed and cause pain (I know from personal experience). Hormonal contraceptives DO NOT cure endometriosis but treat the symptoms and may prevent progression of the disease.

Left untreated will eventually cause at the least a hysterectomy, or worse uterine cancer.
if a person has this problem that is already using the pill the second defense is another Male hpormone called danocrine
normally a person would be on danocrine for a full year, this drug eliminates all menstrual activity, which its hoped will let the uterus
“heal up” side effects to woman on this drug are deepening voice facial hair growth,etc etc.then after getting off this drug its usually at least a one year wait to even think about conception.

Endometriosis does not always lead to a hysterectomy, and there is no evidence that it causes uterine cancer (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/endometriosis/sub2.htm.) Here are a couple of links to answer basic questions about endo for those interested
endometriosis.org/
endocenter.org/

Autumn

 

[she_he]

astegallrnc:

An IUD/IUS is inserted into the uterus through the cervix.
There are two types of IUDs available in the US:
Paragard (Copper T 380A) contains copper
paragard.com/paragard/index.php
Mirena (contains progestin)
mirena-us.com/index.html

My sources state that currently the primary mechanism of action of IUDs is believed to be the production of an environment that is spermicidal. BUT, if fertilzation does take place, changes in the lining of the uterus would also prevent implantation.
Read the Patient Package Information and Prescribing Information on the two IUDs listed for more information.

Some antibiotics decrease the effectiveness. Are you stating that antibiotics probably result in most unplanned conceptions? I have never read this. It is usually theorized that the woman did not take her pills per instructions.

Autumn

I will check more about the IUDs the one i was referring to was the Mirena,

as for the pills no i wasnt meaning it was the overall biggest reason you are correct with the forgetting to follow directions.
what i was meaning was that most conceptions that took place when directions were followed as far as ingesting was antibiotic use, I know there are many other reasons for conception when on the pill i was merely stating the one that seems to happen the most, and my term of antibiotic is also a broad one…but for some reason or another Drs forget to let women whom are on the pill
know that the antibiotics they gave them for that “sinus infection”
also counter act the BC pill…
John

 

[astegallrnc]

It seems that how IUDs work is not completely understood. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?? I can’t seem to open PDFs on this computer, so I am not sure how much detail is on the the Patient Package Information and Prescribing Information. I have 3 well-respected resources on my desk that state what I shared.

Ok, I understand about the antibiotics now. It is getting late so my mind isn’t sharp. Actually, the prescriber and the pharmacist should inform women. No one really knows if an unplanned pregnancy is the result of the user or method. The pill with perfect use fails.

 

[she_he]

astegallrnc:

John, please know that it is not my intent to contradict you.

I agree with Jennifer. She is stating that many doctors will prescribe pills without finding the underlying cause. I don’t think she is saying that gastric acids cause cramps. I believe she is stating that taking meds to decrease stomach acid doesn’t cure what’s causing the excess stomach acid. The symptom rather than the cause is being treated, which is sometimes the best that can be done. This is what happens when the pill or any hormonal contraceptive is used to treat the symptom(s) of a disese (endometriosis, fibroids, etc.)

The Pope Paul VI Institute has amazing treatment and management of endometriosis, which is when the endometrial lining implants outside the uterus (ovaries, tubes, cervix, intestines, etc). The implants do bleed and cause pain (I know from personal experience). Hormonal contraceptives DO NOT cure endometriosis but treat the symptoms and may prevent progression of the disease.

Endometriosis does not always lead to a hysterectomy, and there is no evidence that it causes uterine cancer (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/endometriosis/sub2.htm.) Here are a couple of links to answer basic questions about endo for those interested
endometriosis.org/
endocenter.org/

Autumn

and yes I admit Drs over prescribe most pills of any sort.
I have a friend who works at a drug rehab house and 99.9% of patients seeking help are addicted to prescribed pain meds not street drugs.and most of these are prescribed by physician assitants whom should not be allowed to prescribe narcotics.

as for endometriosis goes:

ok I will inform my mother and my ex mother in law, 3 aunts and Lets not forget Grandma about this
and also let them know that they did not have uterine cancer and therefore didnt need hysterectomies that were caused from endometriosis,as the final reports state.
I will also tell my ex wife that because she was on the Pill at the time and had to use the danocrine that she was not cured and therefore should have been in pain all this time (19 years later)
sorry I dont buy it too many relatives and others i know…
I will admit Not everyone has the drastic things have to happen to them that my family had to do as I admit the ones forced to have hysterectomies did so 30 yrs or more ago and things have come a long ways since.

My ex was also told that if the danocrine didnt work she too would need a hysterectomy at age 23, and her outlook to have children was Bleak even after danocrine treatments, not only did it “cure”
but it took 2 months after danocrine treatments ended for her to become Pregnant with our first son whom is now almost 18
the Dr refused to even give her a pregnancy test because he told her it was impossible for her to be pregnant that quick and that the reason for her lack of cycle was still due to danocrine. she had to insist he finally caved and presto…

so my statements are based on experience and what i have read.

with “current” treatments I am sure your posts are also correct but there is evidence about the cancer…
John

 

[astegallrnc]

Did you even read the links?

let them know that they did not have uterine cancer and therefore didnt need hysterectomies that were caused from endometriosis,as the final reports state.

Why on earth would you do that? I never said that hysterectomy was never indicated for endometriosis. You said, “Left untreated will eventually cause at the least a hysterectomy, or worse uterine cancer”. This is not supported by the medical evidence, and I know many women diagnosed with endometriosis who do not end up having hysterectomies.

The pathology report stated that the uterine cancer was caused by endometriosis? I have no doubt the report would confirm endometriosis, which would support the hysterectomy. And, a woman could have endometriosis and uterine cancer. That does not mean the endo caused the cancer.

“Current research does not prove an association between endometriosis and endometrial, cervical, uterine, or ovarian cancers. In very rare cases (less than 1 percent) endometriosis is seen with a certain type of cancer, called endometrioid cancer; but, endometriosis is not known to cause this cancer”.
nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/endometriosis/sub2.htm

I will also tell my ex wife that because she was on the Pill at the time and had to use the danocrine that she was not cured and therefore should have been in pain all this time (19 years later)

My medical books and the links I posted state that there is no cure for endometrosis. This website states, “a treatment which fully cures endometriosis has yet to be developed, and there is no overwhelming medical evidence to support one specific type of endometriosis treatment over another” endometriosis.org/treatment.html.This isn’t to say that the symptoms aren’t relieved by the medications, otherwise they wouldn’t be prescribed for symptom relief.

My ex was also told that if the danocrine didnt work she too would need a hysterectomy at age 23, and her outlook to have children was Bleak even after danocrine treatments, not only did it “cure”
but it took 2 months after danocrine treatments ended for her to become Pregnant with our first son whom is now almost 18
the Dr refused to even give her a pregnancy test because he told her it was impossible for her to be pregnant that quick and that the reason for her lack of cycle was still due to danocrine. she had to insist he finally caved and presto…

Yes, Lupron, Danazol, etc.are often used and women become pregnant after discontinuation. Yes, is sounds like the medications relieved the symptoms.

so my statements are based on experience and what i have read

And mine are based on medical evidence and my clinical experience.

with “current” treatments I am sure your posts are also correct but there is evidence about the cancer…

I am taking my information from my medical texts.

I would like to see the evidence for the link to cancer. Can you please provide a reputable primary source? I would really like this information since I am diagnosed with endometriosis myself (as are several of my friends). I look forward to your response.

Good nite.
Autumn

 

[astegallrnc]

My apologies for getting off-topic.

Autumn

 

[she_he]

astegallrnc:

Did you even read the links?

Why on earth would you do that? I never said that hysterectomy was never indicated for endometriosis. You said, “Left untreated will eventually cause at the least a hysterectomy, or worse uterine cancer”. This is not supported by the medical evidence, and I know many women diagnosed with endometriosis who do not end up having hysterectomies.

The pathology report stated that the uterine cancer was caused by endometriosis? I have no doubt the report would confirm endometriosis, which would support the hysterectomy. And, a woman could have endometriosis and uterine cancer. That does not mean the endo caused the cancer.

“Current research does not prove an association between endometriosis and endometrial, cervical, uterine, or ovarian cancers. In very rare cases (less than 1 percent) endometriosis is seen with a certain type of cancer, called endometrioid cancer; but, endometriosis is not known to cause this cancer”.
nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/endometriosis/sub2.htm

My medical books and the links I posted state that there is no cure for endometrosis. This website states, “a treatment which fully cures endometriosis has yet to be developed, and there is no overwhelming medical evidence to support one specific type of endometriosis treatment over another” endometriosis.org/treatment.html.This isn’t to say that the symptoms aren’t relieved by the medications, otherwise they wouldn’t be prescribed for symptom relief.

Yes, Lupron, Danazol, etc.are often used and women become pregnant after discontinuation. Yes, is sounds like the medications relieved the symptoms.

And mine are based on medical evidence and my clinical experience.

I am taking my information from my medical texts.

I would like to see the evidence for the link to cancer. Can you please provide a reputable primary source? I would really like this information since I am diagnosed with endometriosis myself (as are several of my friends). I look forward to your response.

Good nite.
Autumn

wont make this long and will continue in a private message,
But the evidence is from the Drs who did the tests etc,as far as the endo being cured on ex wife that was from 2 different exploratory surgeries one before the danocrine and one after,

also I wasnt stating you were wrong …
John

 

[Jennifer_J]

astegallrnc:

John, please know that it is not my intent to contradict you.

I agree with Jennifer. She is stating that many doctors will prescribe pills without finding the underlying cause. I don’t think she is saying that gastric acids cause cramps. I believe she is stating that taking meds to decrease stomach acid doesn’t cure what’s causing the excess stomach acid. The symptom rather than the cause is being treated, which is sometimes the best that can be done. This is what happens when the pill or any hormonal contraceptive is used to treat the symptom(s) of a disese (endometriosis, fibroids, etc.)

The Pope Paul VI Institute has amazing treatment and management of endometriosis, which is when the endometrial lining implants outside the uterus (ovaries, tubes, cervix, intestines, etc). The implants do bleed and cause pain (I know from personal experience). Hormonal contraceptives DO NOT cure endometriosis but treat the symptoms and may prevent progression of the disease.

Autumn

Thank you for clarifying what I meant! Of course stomach acid doesn’t cause menstral cramps!! However when I was young, stupid and on the pill, I was sick all the time. It caused severe heartburn/stomach pain and I was almost always naseous. I had such severe pain, I thought I was having a heart attack! I had to endure an upper GI test to rule out a hietal (sp?) hernia and ulcers. Turns out I had too much stomach acid, she said she wasn’t sure why so I went on pepcid for a while. It helped a bit, but I hated taking all that medicine. My dr did finally tell me that the pill could cause these side effects (thanks! took long enough!) and when dh and entered the church and discovered the other problems with the pill, I was more than glad to get rid of the things. Now the only illness I have is morning sickness when I’m pregnant! No heartburn, ulcers or pain.

Oops, sorry for the side track…
Jennifer