It’s actually from Pope Paul VI:
The teaching of double effect and the idea that a medication can have evil side effects is nothing new. This had been the same consistent teaching of the Church since medieval times. This is basic moral theology 101. Fr. Serpa put it very well when he reminded us that miscarriages occur for many reasons and sometimes they can be an unfortunate side effect of medication.
We are then back to the debate about what does “cure” mean.
there is no science for that understanding, and a lack of science to disprove it also
There are other things which cause miscarriages more than the pill, that is known and was listed on this thread. So many abortions and deformaties were caused by accidents through use of medicine these were not sins either. The science shows the pill suppress ovulation
your mixing issues as intent vs science, and knowledge levels, one can only sin when they know it is sin before hand, as opposed to a poster calling you a sinner or a murder
you have to understand the body of the teachings to understand the issues at hand
again this shows a lack of total understanding of the teachings, Priests are your spiritual father and are there to lead you
It would seem the doctors, Priests, and Bishops agree on this issue
The article says “suggests” again no data exists on actual abortions in fact none have ever been confirmed, not one, not ever
The pill does not fit that discription, some other medicines do
The example is problematic becuase one choses the greater loss of life which goes against the greater body of teachings
So maybe all doctors are not wrong?
does this mean you cannot answer the questions asked?
It is important to understand what that means
Again, we’re not talking about an impediment to procreation here, so the statement is moot. We’re talking about ending a life.
I think you said that backwards, It seems you wish now to spin the conversation away from your previous statements however it is actually the church you have disagreed with, and now you wish to move the conversation away from your previous statements
It would be better if you understood what that means before you instruct others
that is another false statement,
again you said it backwards I have shown you church teachings which you ignore and add addition things which did not come from the church
Yes and no, the church has addressed this issue when known drugs and procedures cause abortions and that answer is one cannot intend an abortion. Which is not to always excluding unintended abortions which result from other intentions. When drugs and procedures are not known to cause abortions then there is no teaching nor is it necessary
Well I guess it boils down to two questions 1) Did you call people using the pill murderers? ( it seem you imply you authored that statement) and 2) Are you teaching a personnal opinion as a Church teaching? (that being the pill is abortificient when not a single known abortion has every occured by that method)
I hope this wasn’t directed at me - because I never questioned the pain or the legitimacy of using the medication in the least.Look, guys, the point is you can’t pass judgement on another woman without KNOWING what she is going through.
The Pope HIMSELF has DECLARED that the pill has legitimate therapeutic purposes. He has ALLOWED its use for these reasons!!!
Until you are spending time on the bathroom floor vomiting from pain, crying your eyes out because you are so emotional you think SUICIDE is a good idea, losing JOBS because you are taking 2 weeks of sick time to do all of this because you are having 2 periods a month, you can’t talk.
No one on here that I have seen so far is a doctor. And women who struggle with these issues usually see a whole HOST of doctors trying to fix this problem. Women on the pill for theraeutic reasons don’t just get on the pill thinking “h yeah, free contraception for my small issue” for MANY it is a gut wrenching painful decision. THey have side effects from the pill (morning sickness, loss of sex drive, weight gain etc) and it SUCKS, but they deal with it because it’s better than losing jobs, and bleeding like a stuck pig.
Sorry to get graphic on here, but how many people out there who doubt the legitimacy of “therapeutic reasons” reall yknow what it is like?
No one says it “cures” anything, and any woman on it for medical reasons won’t say it cures anything either. In the cases it is prescribed for it is to MASK the symptoms of the underlying problem if nothing else can be done, or the woman doesn’t want to sacrifice her fertility. Those with crippling endrometriosis (most common reason) would have to go under the knife to fix the problem, and that can potentially cause infertility, and if they don’t have kids yet, why would they want to do that? Especially since pregnancy usually “cures” the problem anyway?
You may not trust the doctors, the priests, whatever. But I trust the Pope. Pope John Paul II, and HE HIMSELF said it DOES have legitimate therapeutic reasons and can be used for those reasons. I just don’t understand the logic of those catholics who are SO catholic, that they know better than the pope.
That answer makes sense, and I could see embracing that… but then she makes a jump in logic that I just can’t see as legitimate:
She never takes into account the fact that the Church is not a medical or scientific institution. As indicated in this very thread, there is still argument over whether or not the pill ends pregnancies and it’s not the job of the Church to give us a definitive answer on the subject. So, as always when dealing with new technologies, we’ll have to wait for something formal. We can’t just ASSUME that the pope meant to say this or that. He didn’t say it. He didn’t indicate it.
For women who are raped, a D and C is allowed, which is basically a cleansing of the Uterus, which would have the effect of causing an abortion, if by some chance a fetus was fertilized and implated during the rape. The Church does not force women who are raped to wait two weeks to find out if the rape caused a pregnancy. Is this murder?
My priest said that a direct abortion is literrally that- going and receiving an abortion - not an unintended side effect. I think some of the phrases used are getting disected a little too much.
Post a link to the official document that states this.
No it does not.
Do you have an official document from the Vaitcan or USCCB that states a D & C is permitted after a rape?
usccb.org/bishops/directives.shtml#partone
Not necassarily, if the prodecure was to prevent fertilization and or incapacitation of sperm it would comply with the USCCB guidlines. Now whether the procedures does that is up to medical people not me, however until one knows that answer they could not condemn such action.