The Pillar of Truth

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I am having discussions with a Baptist Pastor, I showed him 1 Timothy 3:15 which says the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of truth. He said the text could also read that the Church is “A” pillar of truth rather than “THE” pillar and foundation of truth. This is because the Greek does not have the definate article. Any thoughts on this?:confused:
 
kmsmalle said:
I am having discussions with a Baptist Pastor, I showed him 1 Timothy 3:15 which says the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of truth. He said the text could also read that the Church is “A” pillar of truth rather than “THE” pillar and foundation of truth. This is because the Greek does not have the definate article. Any thoughts on this?:confused:
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I don’t know Greek, but every Bible translation I’ve read this verse in has the article “the” in it. Even if you substitute “a,” it still implies the infalliblity of the Church because it couldn’t be a pillar of truth if it taught error.
 
kmsmalle said:
I am having discussions with a Baptist Pastor, I showed him 1 Timothy 3:15 which says the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of truth. He said the text could also read that the Church is “A” pillar of truth rather than “THE” pillar and foundation of truth. This is because the Greek does not have the definate article. Any thoughts on this?:confused:
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I would be interested to see what he is getting at here. If the Church is “a pillar and foundation of truth” instead of how every single English translation says “THE pillar and foundation of truth”…then there can be “other” foundations of truth other than the Church? This makes no sense whatsoever, it is like telling someone “Oh yea, this is one foundation but there are others also- depending on what you believe in your heart”. And that goes completely contrary to the truth. I mean it is like Pagan Rome reborn here- the religious system that had no absolute truth and gave credence to all sorts of religious beliefs as being valid in their own way.

Ken
 
If we look at “the Church” from another of St. Paul’s letters:

1 Cor 27-28
Now you are Christ’s body, and individually parts of it. Some people God has designated in a/the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.

If there are multiple churches are there multiple bodies of Christ?
 
kmsmalle said:
I am having discussions with a Baptist Pastor, I showed him 1 Timothy 3:15 which says the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of truth. He said the text could also read that the Church is “A” pillar of truth rather than “THE” pillar and foundation of truth. This is because the Greek does not have the definate article. Any thoughts on this?:confused:
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He’s dead wrong. Latin does not have definite articles, but Greek definitely has them; in fact it uses definite articles more than English does. I’m only a beginner in Greek, but I know that much. I don’t have a Greek NT handy, but it should be easy to see if the definite artilce is there, and if it is, it means “the”, singular. Joe
 
I looked at the Greek text. The definite article isn’t used for “pillar and support” but that doesn’t mean it isn’t singular in the context. It’s an adjectival clause, adding a gloss on “church of the living God” which doesn’t have a definite article either. Does this pastor think it could be read “a church of the living God”?

My literal translation of this verse would be “this letter will let you how we should conduct ourselves in house of God, which is church of God the living, pillar and support of the truth”.

As you can see, the only noun in the Greek which gets a definite article here is “truth”. Which doesn’t mean that “house of God” or “church of God” aren’t singular. In the context, they clearly are.

This pastor is playing word games. Joe
 
kleary said:
I would be interested to see what he is getting at here. If the Church is “a pillar and foundation of truth” instead of how every single English translation says “THE pillar and foundation of truth”…then there can be “other” foundations of truth other than the Church? This makes no sense whatsoever, it is like telling someone “Oh yea, this is one foundation but there are others also- depending on what you believe in your heart”. And that goes completely contrary to the truth. I mean it is like Pagan Rome reborn here- the religious system that had no absolute truth and gave credence to all sorts of religious beliefs as being valid in their own way.

Ken
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I thought about your response because I first i disagreed but then changed my mind. At first I though there can be multiple pillars supporting a single truth like multiple arguments. As per the posts above, the definite article was only used to qualify truth - not pillar.

As I think you were implying above, I assume the pastor does not support relativism so there can’t be multiple truths.

After further consideration, I concluded that multiple arguments can support a single truth but only if they don’t contradict each other. Protestant churches contradict each other on many critical dogmas like infant baptism, justification and more. They can’t be pillars to a single truth.

Catholic churches in North America, Europe, Asia, etc. all support truth without contradicting each other. Only the Catholic church fits the description of the text. IMHO, putting the definitive article on pillar is the best, most clear, translation.
 
You guys have been a great help! Thank you. I agree that the Pastor is playing with words and trying to avoid the clear implications of the text. If Protestants believe in ‘Sola Scriptura’ how can they also believe the church be “a” pillar and foundation of truth. We would then have two pillars of truth - the church and the bible. This is contrary to the Protestant distinctive of Sola Scriptura. Is it not?🙂
 
Church_Militant said:
This might also help…

εαν δε βραδυνω, ἱνα ειδης πως δει εν οικω θεου αναστρεφεσθαι, ἡτις εστιν εκκλησια θεου ζωντος, στυλος και ἑδραιωμα της αληθειας.
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That’s a lovely font 🙂​

Have you see this: /greeknt/nt.in.greek ? ##
 
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