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MindOverMatter2
Guest
Do you think nationalism is Good or bad for society? What is its origins?
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Nationalism comes from nation from the latin “natus” the local of birth. It would be “Birthism”
It is tribal something that come from the inner self.
It is good till it becomes bad.
It is good till the point where you think that the whole world is yours…
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Whadyamean
Guest
A well known bumper sticker asks “Patriotism or Peace?” Patriotism and nationalism are pretty close to the same thing. As a phenomenon, it is neutral, as it has no other real existence than in the mind of those who subscribe to it or not. As a matter of individual awareness, nationalism is but a stage of progress away from the infantile regard that only one’s own needs exist and the stages that follow that in maturity towards Unity with God. It is usually “me” first, which tends to grow into “my family” then “my school village, or team” then “my state,” then “my country, or race or religion” and then “the world” and “the Universe.” Sort of like that. There is, if one is lucky, an accompanying exit from flatland and one sees beyond belief systems that are materialistic, economic–or even religious–and actually perceives depth beyond the limits of belief.
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John21652
Guest
It’s good when it is a part of identity forming behaviour. It gives cohesiveness to a society.
It’s bad when it leads to a “we are better than them, let’s show 'em” attitude that leads one society to trample on the rights of another.
It’s great fun at the Olympics!
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
QUOTE=John21652;8656972]It’s good when it is a part of identity forming behaviour. It gives cohesiveness to a society.
It’s bad when it leads to a “we are better than them, let’s show 'em” attitude that leads one society to trample on the rights of another.
It’s great fun at the Olympics!
I tend to go this way.
It’s bad when it leads to a “we are better than them, let’s show 'em” attitude that leads one society to trample on the rights of another.
It’s great fun at the Olympics!
I tend to go this way.
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JackVk
Guest
There’s a difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism is simply loving your country because it is your (earthly), and is as natural as loving your parents. Nationalism is another thing; it is arrogance. Consider America: we stomped out the Nazis bent on world domination, saved Western Europe from the Commies, founded the Peace Corps, etc. But when our moral compass drives us into apostasy, our evangelical zeal keeps going, and distributes condoms and Lady Gaga to Third World countries. (paraphrased from Mark Shea’s essay on Americanism in “Disorientation: How to go to College Without Losing Your Mind”.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
I think that St Joan of Arc founded nationalism when she fought to establish France for the French and England for the English. There must be some good in it if God took such efforts to inspire her to do that.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Anyone read The Tribe of Football?
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cornbread_r2
Guest
I think nationalism is just another step in the expanding circle of perceived kinship.
The first circle included just our immediate family. That circle was expanded to include our extended family. The next expanded to include our tribe. The next expanded to include all the tribes on our side of the mountain and so on.
I also think that the further that circle expands the better off we’ll be.
The first circle included just our immediate family. That circle was expanded to include our extended family. The next expanded to include our tribe. The next expanded to include all the tribes on our side of the mountain and so on.
I also think that the further that circle expands the better off we’ll be.
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Whadyamean
Guest
I agree, cornbread. There is a very useful and fascinating treatment of this idea in Ken Wilber’s A Brief History of Everything, a wonderful book!
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mrajax
Guest
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but the war Joan took part in involved the english claiming the French crown as theirs when it wasn’t. So no, she wasn’t being nationalist, she was being patriotic because she prevented someone else from taking what was rightfully theirs.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Yes, there is a big difference between nationalism and patriotism. Nationalism is belligerent.
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jonathan_hili
Guest
Ultimately, bad.’
We are all brothers and sisters and ties of nation-states should not divide us and cause conflict between us. We are also all children of God, and the Church is universal, beyond any nation.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
Nationalism can be good or it can be bad.
If one’s nation has steered a righteous course, we should be loyal to that course and ready to defend it against all who would destroy it.
If a nation has steered a wrongful course, nationalism will exacerbate the evil.
If one’s nation has steered a righteous course, we should be loyal to that course and ready to defend it against all who would destroy it.
If a nation has steered a wrongful course, nationalism will exacerbate the evil.
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edwest2
Guest
As men began to spread across the earth, close-knit family units formed to better defend themselves against their environment, including wild animals, and to have the manpower available to ease the burden of daily life for the tribe. These tribal groups staked claims to portions of land and even though they would have a common language, dialects and variants still exist to this day. Since hunter-gatherers turned to farming and mining, they formed defined boundaries as their land. These became sovereign countries. And those boundaries had to be defended because you couldn’t have the Picts or the Goths or the Visigoths or the Flemings or whoever, just walking on to your land and cutting down some trees or digging their own mines or grabbing some of your livestock.
Customs, traditions, forms of common dress, heraldry, and a history are all created surrounding your land and fighting to defend it from anyone for centuries. This national identity should be maintained and passed on. Once the Russians left the Ukraine, the first thing Ukrainians wanted was the Ukrainian language taught in schools and their own coins. All of this forms an identity that should never be forgotten.
To call this poison is to spit on the graves of all who have fallen to defend their country. In Germany, the call today is: “Germany for Germans.” There are those who dislike immigrants because it’s their land, their country. A country that goes farther back in time than the United States, and which can properly put limits on immigration.
National sovereignty should never be violated except in times of war where the threat is that other countries, and their people and resources, will be swallowed up by the victor/aggressor. Who remembers Bohemia or Moravia? Or Pomerania?
It disgusts me that a bunch of bankers created the Euro and the European Union.
Peace,
Ed
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