The Pope as ground of Church unity

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Question then, why even bother with the formality of a council, other than respect for the other bishops? Are they truly even necessary, much less authoritative?
Jon
Well, how do you know that one, or many, of the other Bishops won’t play a role in influencing the Pope to stand up if neccessary.

I personally don’t know how these Councils typically operate. I really don’t see the Pope as needing to use such authority. Mostly I see the office as being significant in constituting Catholic legitimacy, and then being a spokesman for the Church.
 
Well, how do you know that one, or many, of the other Bishops won’t play a role in influencing the Pope to stand up if neccessary.

I personally don’t know how these Councils typically operate. I really don’t see the Pope as needing to use such authority. Mostly I see the office as being significant in constituting Catholic legitimacy, and then being a spokesman for the Church.
Well. I’m sure they play a role, but they could play a role in private, not at a council. No?

To be sure, recent popes have been excellent spokesmen and leaders for our faith.

Jon
 
Well. I’m sure they play a role, but they could play a role in private, not at a council. No?

To be sure, recent popes have been excellent spokesmen and leaders for our faith.

Jon
In Acts, It is Apostles and the Church who actually cause the council. Peter didn’t just decide to call everyone together and tell them something they need to know, like Jesus did. So Bishops now do the same. They are able to settle all sorts of matters, but when issues need the collectiveness of different perspectives, information and the participation of all to know what is to be upheld from that point on, usually its probably the petition of certain Bishops which cause a council to come together. They would not be doing anything fully Universal if they did not seek Rome’s Oversight.
 
Where does Chrysostom say that? His homilies on Acts seem to state quite differently.
I can’t find the quote right now. Read it a while ago but I’m sure I’ll find it and post it within a few days… For now here is what the Saint had to say :

Peter himself the Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church, the Friend of Christ, who received a revelation, not from man, but from the Father, as the Lord bears witness to him, saying, ‘Blessed art thou, &c.’ This very Peter and when I name Peter I name that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, First of the disciples, the First called, and the First who obeyed he was guilty …even denying the Lord." (Chrysostom, T. ii. Hom)

**Peter, the Leader of the choir of Apostles, the Mouth of the disciples, the Pillar of the Church, the Buttress of the faith, the Foundation of the confession, the Fisherman of the universe. **(Chrysostom, T. iii Hom).

Peter, that Leader of the choir, that Mouth of the rest of the Apostles, that Head of the brotherhood, that one set over the entire universe, that Foundation of the Church. (Chrys. In illud hoc Scitote)

(Peter), the foundation of the Church, the Coryphaeus of the choir of the Apostles, the vehement lover of Christ …he who ran throughout the whole world, who fished the whole world; this holy Coryphaeus of the blessed choir; the ardent disciple, who was entrusted with the keys of heaven, who received the spiritual revelation. Peter, the mouth of all Apostles, the head of that company, the ruler of the whole world. (De Eleemos, iii. 4; Hom. de decem mille tal. 3)

In those days Peter rose up in the midst of the disciples (Acts 1; 15), both as being ardent, and as intrusted by Christ with the flock …he first acts with authority in the matter, as having all put into his hands ; for to him Christ said, 'And thou, being converted, confirm thy brethren. (Chrysostom, Hom. iii Act Apost. tom. ix.)

He passed over his fall, and appointed him first of the Apostles; wherefore He said: ’ ‘Simon, Simon,’ etc. (in Ps. cxxix. 2). God allowed him to fall, because He meant to make him ruler over the whole world, that, remembering his own fall, he might forgive those who should slip in the future. And that what I have said is no guess, listen to Christ Himself saying: ‘Simon, Simon, etc.’ (Chrys, Hom. quod frequenter conveniendum sit 5, cf. Hom 73 in Joan 5).

And why, then, passing by the others, does He converse with Peter on these things? (John 21:15). He was the chosen one of the Apostles, and the mouth of the disciples, and the leader of the choir. On this account, Paul also went up on a time to see him rather than the others (Galatians 1:18). And withal, to show him that he must thenceforward have confidence, as the denial was done away with, He puts into his hands the presidency over the brethren. And He brings not forward the denial, nor reproches him with what had past, but says, 'If you love me, preside over the brethren, …and the third time He gives him the same injunction, showing what a price He sets the presidency over His own sheep. and if one should say, ‘How then did James receive the throne of Jerusalem?,’ this I would answer that He appointed this man (Peter) teacher, not of that throne, but of the whole world (Chrysostom, In Joan. Hom. 1xxxviii. n. 1, tom. viii)

 
Yep, exactly. He places James’ conciliar authority above that of St. Peter. James has the “chief rule.”
No he doesn’t. When speaking of Peter, he says :

And why, then, passing by the others, does He converse with Peter on these things? (John 21:15). He was the chosen one of the Apostles, and the mouth of the disciples, and the leader of the choir. On this account, Paul also went up on a time to see him rather than the others (Galatians 1:18). And withal, to show him that he must thenceforward have confidence, as the denial was done away with, He puts into his hands the presidency over the brethren. And He brings not forward the denial, nor reproches him with what had past, but says, 'If you love me, preside over the brethren, …and the third time He gives him the same injunction, showing what a price He sets the presidency over His own sheep. and if one should say, ‘How then did James receive the throne of Jerusalem?,’ this I would answer that He appointed this man (Peter) teacher, not of that throne, but of the whole world (Chrysostom, In Joan. Hom. 1xxxviii. n. 1, tom. viii
 
I can’t find the quote right now. Read it a while ago but I’m sure I’ll find it and post it within a few days… For now here is what the Saint had to say :

Peter himself the Head or Crown of the Apostles, the First in the Church, the Friend of Christ, who received a revelation, not from man, but from the Father, as the Lord bears witness to him, saying, ‘Blessed art thou, &c.’ This very Peter and when I name Peter I name that unbroken Rock, that firm Foundation, the Great Apostle, First of the disciples, the First called, and the First who obeyed he was guilty …even denying the Lord." (Chrysostom, T. ii. Hom)

**Peter, the Leader of the choir of Apostles, the Mouth of the disciples, the Pillar of the Church, the Buttress of the faith, the Foundation of the confession, the Fisherman of the universe. **(Chrysostom, T. iii Hom).

Peter, that Leader of the choir, that Mouth of the rest of the Apostles, that Head of the brotherhood, that one set over the entire universe, that Foundation of the Church. (Chrys. In illud hoc Scitote)

(Peter), the foundation of the Church, the Coryphaeus of the choir of the Apostles, the vehement lover of Christ …he who ran throughout the whole world, who fished the whole world; this holy Coryphaeus of the blessed choir; the ardent disciple, who was entrusted with the keys of heaven, who received the spiritual revelation. Peter, the mouth of all Apostles, the head of that company, the ruler of the whole world. (De Eleemos, iii. 4; Hom. de decem mille tal. 3)

In those days Peter rose up in the midst of the disciples (Acts 1; 15), both as being ardent, and as intrusted by Christ with the flock …he first acts with authority in the matter, as having all put into his hands ; for to him Christ said, 'And thou, being converted, confirm thy brethren. (Chrysostom, Hom. iii Act Apost. tom. ix.)

He passed over his fall, and appointed him first of the Apostles; wherefore He said: ’ ‘Simon, Simon,’ etc. (in Ps. cxxix. 2). God allowed him to fall, because He meant to make him ruler over the whole world, that, remembering his own fall, he might forgive those who should slip in the future. And that what I have said is no guess, listen to Christ Himself saying: ‘Simon, Simon, etc.’ (Chrys, Hom. quod frequenter conveniendum sit 5, cf. Hom 73 in Joan 5).

And why, then, passing by the others, does He converse with Peter on these things? (John 21:15). He was the chosen one of the Apostles, and the mouth of the disciples, and the leader of the choir. On this account, Paul also went up on a time to see him rather than the others (Galatians 1:18). And withal, to show him that he must thenceforward have confidence, as the denial was done away with, He puts into his hands the presidency over the brethren. And He brings not forward the denial, nor reproches him with what had past, but says, 'If you love me, preside over the brethren, …and the third time He gives him the same injunction, showing what a price He sets the presidency over His own sheep. and if one should say, ‘How then did James receive the throne of Jerusalem?,’ this I would answer that He appointed this man (Peter) teacher, not of that throne, but of the whole world (Chrysostom, In Joan. Hom. 1xxxviii. n. 1, tom. viii)

I am not sure what any of the above has to do with a specific exegesis of Acts 15.

The rest is Peter syndrome. “If a church father said something positive about Peter, it must be an advocacy for the doctrine of the papacy.”
 
I am not sure what any of the above has to do with a specific exegesis of Acts 15.

The rest is Peter syndrome. “If a church father said something positive about Peter, it must be an advocacy for the doctrine of the papacy.”
Did you not see this :

*In those days Peter rose up in the midst of the disciples (Acts 1; 15), both as being ardent, and as intrusted by Christ with the flock …he first acts with authority in the matter, as having all put into his hands ; for to him Christ said, 'And thou, being converted, confirm thy brethren. (Chrysostom, Hom. iii Act Apost. tom. ix.) *

This and the others speak of the view Chrysostom had with regards to Peter and his authority. This places huge context on how Peter fits in his homily on the council

It is in the Acts of the Apostles that the primacy of St. Peter is seen in exercise. St. Chrysostom’s commentary on the first chapter is very remarkable. I give his words according to the Oxford translation, which renders the “short text” from good manuscripts:

"‘And in those days,’ it says, 'Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples and said:* Both as being ardent, and as having been put in trust by Christ of the flock, and as having precedence of honor, he always begins the discourse.** (The number of names together were about a hundred and twenty). ‘Men and brethren,’ he says, 'this Scripture must have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost spake before, etc.** Why did he not ask Christ to give him some one in the room of Judas?** It is better as it is. For, in the first place, they were engaged in other things; secondly, of Christ’s presence among them the greatest proof that could be given was this: as He had chosen when He was among them, so did He now being absent. Now this was no small matter for their consolation. But observe how Peter does everything with the common consent, nothing imperiously. And he does not speak thus without a meaning. [Long text adds: ‘And he did not simply say, “Instead of Judas, we choose such a one.”’] “But observe how he consoles them concerning what had passed. In fact, what had happened had caused them no small consternation.” (Library of the Fathers, Homilies of St. J. Chrys on the Acts, Oxford 1852, hom 3, page 37; Migne, vol IX, 33[23])*

That St. Peter might have been expected to appoint a new apostle without betaking himself to lot, or consulting the brethren, is what strikes St. Chrysostom.

"Wherefore at the beginning he said: ‘Men and brethren, it behoves us to choose from among you.’ He defers the decision to the whole body, thereby making the elected objects of reverence, and himself keeping clear of all invidiousness with regard to the rest…‘Must one be ordained to be a witness,’ that their college might not be left mutilated.* Then why did it not rest with Peter to make the election himself**? What was the motive? This: that he might not seem to bestow it of favor. And, besides, he was not yet endowed with the Spirit. ‘And they appointed two, Joseph, called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.’ Not he appointed them, but it was he that introduced the proposition to that effect, at the same time pointing out that even this was not his own, but from old time by prophecy, so that he acted as expositor not preceptor." (ibid Oxford, page 40, Migne, 35-6[25])

“Again consider the moderation of James. He it was who received the bishopric of Jerusalem, and here he says nothing. Mark, also, the great moderation of the other apostles, how they concede the throne to him [James] and no longer dispute with each other.” (ibid Oxford, page 42, Migne, 36[26])

“Here is forethought for providing a teacher; here was the first who was ordained a teacher. He did not say: ‘We are sufficient.’ So far was he beyond all vain glory, and he looked to one thing alone.** And yet he had the same power to ordain as they all collectively. ** But well might these things be done in this fashion, through the noble spirit of the man, and in regard that prelacy then was not an affair of dignity, but of provident care for the governed. This neither made the elected to become elated, for it was to dangers that they were called, nor those not elected to make a grievance of it, as if they were disgraced. But things are done in that fashion now; nay, quite the contrary. For observe they were a hundred and twenty, and he asks for one out of the whole body; with good right,** as having been put in charge of them for to him Christ had said: ‘And when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren’.”*** (Oxford, page 42, Migne, 37[26])

Thus, we have a rhetorical question with its answer: “Could Peter not have appointed Matthias himself? Of course he could.” If we prefer the short text, we have a plain statement, “And yet he had the same power to appoint as they all collectively.”
 
Now there is a historical perspective on this matter. Without the Pope orthodox churches grew in a doctrinal immobilization and a strange isolation doing little to evangelize the world, and the protestant churches grew in a doctrinal dilution evangelizing more one another into different denominations.
Without the Pope doesn’t work.
 
Now there is a historical perspective on this matter. Without the Pope orthodox churches grew in a doctrinal immobilization and a strange isolation doing little to evangelize the world, and the protestant churches grew in a doctrinal dilution evangelizing more one another into different denominations.
Without the Pope doesn’t work.
This is not the way to look at the Orthodox. You have to know what gifts God had given to the Orthodox and to what gifts God had given to the Catholic Church. In all these discussions we tend to have regarding the Catholic and Orthodox Churches we seem especially coming from the Catholic side to point only to the Pope. There is more to the Church than the Pope for even though he is an important person for the Church, we as Christians need to ask what did God had given to the Orthodox Church that He wants for the whole Church to know. To be only centralizing on His Holiness is not possible if we want unity. God had given to the Orthodox a special gift not found in the Catholic Church (here I am referring to one’s participation in the Liturgy or Mass). The Orthodox tend to witness God with an interiorly ministry rather than from an exterior ministry which is found in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is only bigger because her ministry is more outward than what is found in the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox are more inclined toward an inward ministry. This means that the average Orthodox will involve themselves more within this contemplative and yes mystical way of approaching God. That is what an inward ministry involves. You have a different but complimentary ministry within the Catholic Church. From living and worshipping in both communities I find the Orthodox more faithful not because they are taught the faith as it is found in Catholicism but more that they experience the faith. That is how an inward type of ministry works in a Church as it is in the Eastern Churches. You just experience God more. I am a fan of both ministries of what is good for the Catholic Church and what is good for the Eastern Churches. What we need to do today is blend in both approaches and ministries so as to incorporate the best of both worlds into our lives. Orthodoxy evangelizes differently than Catholicism. In my opinion it is very misunderstood and not appreciated from the Catholic side except from your most recent Popes. It is by the inward ministry that saints like St. John Chrysostom are formed. In fact the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen was formed more by this inward ministry. The late Archbishop had spent one hour before the Blessed Sacrament everyday when he became a priest. This is what the Orthodox do more than what the average Catholic does. They spend more time in Church and by doing so are experiencing God more.
 
This is not the way to look at the Orthodox. You have to know what gifts God had given to the Orthodox and to what gifts God had given to the Catholic Church. In all these discussions we tend to have regarding the Catholic and Orthodox Churches we seem especially coming from the Catholic side to point only to the Pope. There is more to the Church than the Pope for even though he is an important person for the Church, we as Christians need to ask what did God had given to the Orthodox Church that He wants for the whole Church to know. To be only centralizing on His Holiness is not possible if we want unity. God had given to the Orthodox a special gift not found in the Catholic Church (here I am referring to one’s participation in the Liturgy or Mass). The Orthodox tend to witness God with an interiorly ministry rather than from an exterior ministry which is found in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is only bigger because her ministry is more outward than what is found in the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox are more inclined toward an inward ministry. This means that the average Orthodox will involve themselves more within this contemplative and yes mystical way of approaching God. That is what an inward ministry involves. You have a different but complimentary ministry within the Catholic Church. From living and worshipping in both communities I find the Orthodox more faithful not because they are taught the faith as it is found in Catholicism but more that they experience the faith. That is how an inward type of ministry works in a Church as it is in the Eastern Churches. You just experience God more. I am a fan of both ministries of what is good for the Catholic Church and what is good for the Eastern Churches. What we need to do today is blend in both approaches and ministries so as to incorporate the best of both worlds into our lives. Orthodoxy evangelizes differently than Catholicism. In my opinion it is very misunderstood and not appreciated from the Catholic side except from your most recent Popes. It is by the inward ministry that saints like St. John Chrysostom are formed. In fact the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen was formed more by this inward ministry. The late Archbishop had spent one hour before the Blessed Sacrament everyday when he became a priest. This is what the Orthodox do more than what the average Catholic does. They spend more time in Church and by doing so are experiencing God more.
Sometimes I wonder if the Catholic and Orthodox - what St. JP II called the “two lungs” of the Church - can be thought of as the Masculine and Feminine sides. Other times I think of them as Martha, compared to Mary.
Abp Sheen was certainly formed by his daily Holy Hour. But then he went out, put on his boxing gloves and took on the scourges of Communism, Nazism, third world poverty, secularism in academia and media, and legal abortion. Sadly, most Catholics today not only skip their holy hours, but their boxing gloves are somewhere up in the attic.
 
Sometimes I wonder if the Catholic and Orthodox - what St. JP II called the “two lungs” of the Church - can be thought of as the Masculine and Feminine sides. Other times I think of them as Martha, compared to Mary.
Abp Sheen was certainly formed by his daily Holy Hour. But then he went out, put on his boxing gloves and took on the scourges of Communism, Nazism, third world poverty, secularism in academia and media, and legal abortion. Sadly, most Catholics today not only skip their holy hours, but their boxing gloves are somewhere up in the attic.
Archbishop Sheen blended in both ministries to give him that extra advantage. I wish the Orthodox will also put their gloves on and perhaps the Catholic evangelist will be teaching us how to do this. Archbishop Sheen was a favorite of mine and continues to be so. I like your analogy of the two lungs and seeing the masculine and feminine side of our Churches. These important gifts and approaches of our two Churches can be pointed towards the masculine and feminine side by which we are taught in our respective Churches. The Catholic Church is par excellence on discipline and the Eastern Orthodox is par excellence on nurturing and mentoring. In one Church, the Catholic Church, you are usually spoken too, thus the discipline is set in while the other Church, the Orthodox and Eastern Churches it is usually you are more listened too. That is why one Church has a more defined discipline towards its Catechism while the other Church does not. It is just the Orthodox are more inclined for the Church to listen to you. The Catholic are more inclined for their Church to speak to you. In both approaches the discipline and nurturing (mentoring) are both necessary for development and growth of the person. These qualities of discipline and nurturing (mentoring) are what is basically found in the masculine and feminine. Thank you for mentioning it in your post.
 
Question then, why even bother with the formality of a council, other than respect for the other bishops? Are they truly even necessary, much less authoritative?

Jon
Papal infallibility is a negative feature. IF the pope makes a statement, emphasizing it under certain conditions regarding Faith and Morals, it won’t be in error. But it doesn’t mean he knows the answer or the complete answer, or know when is the best time to teach it, or know which truth is the priority to communicate right now.

Catholicism is based on Scripture and Tradition, too. Sacred Tradition includes the insights of councils, often reflecting on Scripture, as well as new challenges facing the Church. That does not reduce the authority of the pope, but provides a broader base of insights, call it an intense new dose of Tradition, to provide added information on which he and his successors for centuries to come can make decisions, or at least reflect intelligently.

In recent years, the Church has been having Synods, which we weren’t doing before Vatican II. In the age of the Internet, will the Church have more councils? I don’t know.

I think the temptation to kill all the Catholic bishops of the world with one bomb means that a new council won’t happen in our lifetime.
 
I am not sure what any of the above has to do with a specific exegesis of Acts 15.

The rest is Peter syndrome. “If a church father said something positive about Peter, it must be an advocacy for the doctrine of the papacy.”
Did you read acts 11 or so… When peter goes to the house of cornelius and recieves the revelation about accepting gentiles.?

Hmmm…peter syndrome?

As opposed to your anti peter syndrome perhaps…🤷 resulting in the lutheran teaching of the anti christ.
 
Archbishop Sheen blended in both ministries to give him that extra advantage. I wish the Orthodox will also put their gloves on and perhaps the Catholic evangelist will be teaching us how to do this. Archbishop Sheen was a favorite of mine and continues to be so. I like your analogy of the two lungs and seeing the masculine and feminine side of our Churches. These important gifts and approaches of our two Churches can be pointed towards the masculine and feminine side by which we are taught in our respective Churches. The Catholic Church is par excellence on discipline and the Eastern Orthodox is par excellence on nurturing and mentoring. In one Church, the Catholic Church, you are usually spoken too, thus the discipline is set in while the other Church, the Orthodox and Eastern Churches it is usually you are more listened too. That is why one Church has a more defined discipline towards its Catechism while the other Church does not. It is just the Orthodox are more inclined for the Church to listen to you. The Catholic are more inclined for their Church to speak to you. In both approaches the discipline and nurturing (mentoring) are both necessary for development and growth of the person. These qualities of discipline and nurturing (mentoring) are what is basically found in the masculine and feminine. Thank you for mentioning it in your post.
Hi chimo: I think you are on to something. I like the posts you have been giving and it is so refreshing as so many it seems Orthodox posters have been rather in their opinion my way or the highway which many Catholic’s have also have done. I hope that one day there will be reunion between Orthodox and Catholic Churches, we are two sides of the same body.
 
I haven’t read all of the pages on this thread, so I’m not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I think it’s important to explain what Our Lord Jesus Christ meant in regards to what He said about Peter being the rock upon which His Church would be built.

Jesus changed Simon’s name from Simon Bar Jona (meaning Simon, son of John) to Simon Peter. The name “Peter,” in the language of the day, meant “Rock.” That’s one of the reasons why we Catholics believe that it was Peter who was to be the leader of the Church. The Church was to be built upon the rock of Simon (Peter). There were many instances where Jesus singled out Simon Peter as a leader. I can find that info if anyone wants to see it.

It’s also important to keep in mind that when God changed someone’s name (in the OT) in usually signified something very important.
 
I haven’t read all of the pages on this thread, so I’m not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I think it’s important to explain what Our Lord Jesus Christ meant in regards to what He said about Peter being the rock upon which His Church would be built.

Jesus changed Simon’s name from Simon Bar Jona (meaning Simon, son of John) to Simon Peter. The name “Peter,” in the language of the day, meant “Rock.” That’s one of the reasons why we Catholics believe that it was Peter who was to be the leader of the Church. The Church was to be built upon the rock of Simon (Peter). There were many instances where Jesus singled out Simon Peter as a leader. I can find that info if anyone wants to see it.

It’s also important to keep in mind that when God changed someone’s name (in the OT) in usually signified something very important.
I am not particularly sure that any of that is in contention, however. At least, not as it relates to St. Peter. What is in contention are the extrapolations made from it, which we think is neither borne out by the apostolic Scriptures or church history.
 
I am not particularly sure that any of that is in contention, however. At least, not as it relates to St. Peter. What is in contention are the extrapolations made from it, which we think is neither borne out by the apostolic Scriptures or church history.
If it’s not in contention, then why would you have a problem with the “extrapolations” made from it? Are you saying that Our Lord meant to only have a leader for His Church for a short time, until the death of St. Peter?
 
Hi chimo: I think you are on to something. I like the posts you have been giving and it is so refreshing as so many it seems Orthodox posters have been rather in their opinion my way or the highway which many Catholic’s have also have done. I hope that one day there will be reunion between Orthodox and Catholic Churches, we are two sides of the same body.
Thank you and I find your posts just as illuminating. Time will give way towards unity. There just have to be more contacts, more openness and more understanding from people.
 
Archbishop Sheen blended in both ministries to give him that extra advantage. I wish the Orthodox will also put their gloves on and perhaps the Catholic evangelist will be teaching us how to do this. Archbishop Sheen was a favorite of mine and continues to be so. I like your analogy of the two lungs and seeing the masculine and feminine side of our Churches. These important gifts and approaches of our two Churches can be pointed towards the masculine and feminine side by which we are taught in our respective Churches. The Catholic Church is par excellence on discipline and the Eastern Orthodox is par excellence on nurturing and mentoring. In one Church, the Catholic Church, you are usually spoken too, thus the discipline is set in while the other Church, the Orthodox and Eastern Churches it is usually you are more listened too. That is why one Church has a more defined discipline towards its Catechism while the other Church does not. It is just the Orthodox are more inclined for the Church to listen to you. The Catholic are more inclined for their Church to speak to you. In both approaches the discipline and nurturing (mentoring) are both necessary for development and growth of the person. These qualities of discipline and nurturing (mentoring) are what is basically found in the masculine and feminine. Thank you for mentioning it in your post.
You mention above that the Catholic church is par excellence on discipline, but actually, in the last fifty years or so, the emphasis has been on a more pastoral (nurturing) approach, rather than discipline, and there’s also an emphasis, by some Catholics, on having a religious experience, rather than taking a more intellectual approach, as in the old days. At least we do have a catechism to refer to, and perhaps the Orthodox don’t have a catechism. You might get the impression that most Catholics today think like the great Archbishop Sheen, but that’s not really the case anymore. But we’ll get back on track eventually. God is still in charge! 🙂
 
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