The Pope has power

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Roblox84

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I posted this on another thread, but I wanted to start a thread to get a larger audience. Any new denomination can reject the authority of the Pope because they feel like he doesn’t have any power, but doesn’t the Pope still have power over a lot of things that any regular Pastor can’t do, but the Pastor still adheres to? Wasn’t it the Pope who picked the dates of Christmas and other religious holiday’s that are now even celebrated by Protestants who reject the Pope? And didn’t the Pope have a lot to do with authorizing canons of the bible? If this is so how can someone say that the Pope has no power if even Protestants today are doing what certain Popes set up years ago?
 
That is true. Which makes the rejection of the Pope on the part of Protestants quite ironic.
 
nhylan said:
This would be true is this was the only reason Protestants reject papal authority.
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I’m well aware of that, but a lot of Protestants seem to be selective on which of the Pope’s teachings and regulations they adopt and which they reject. I’m just pointing it out.
 
There’s nothing wrong with Popes and their decisions where the put holidays but you are right to a degree, there are a lot of ignorant people out there who don’t know any better.
 
Each pope has less power then the ones before, it’s because the ones before set precedence and you cannot override it. Instead of the system, where man made governments and institutions always rise to more and more power and control, it’s the opposite with the church. It makes you really put into context, this is not some dictatorship, nor are those brought into office there for a grab to power at all, just the opposite.
 
Cojuanco said:
That is true. Which makes the rejection of the Pope on the part of Protestants quite ironic.
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Was Jesus actually born on Dec 25? What date do the Orthodox celebrate Christmas? Did Christians just start celebrating Christmas on Dec 25 because one of the Popes selected that date? What were they doing before one of the Popes decreeded it? And did this Pope pick Dec 25 because he knew it was the actual date Jesus was born or for other reasons? Would the irony you experience over this trivial matter go away if protestants started celebrating Christmas on Dec 26?

And what about Good Friday/Easter. Popes got that date wrong now didn’t they?
 
Jon_Hus said:
Was Jesus actually born on Dec 25? What date do the Orthodox celebrate Christmas? Did Christians just start celebrating Christmas on Dec 25 because one of the Popes selected that date? What were they doing before one of the Popes decreeded it? And did this Pope pick Dec 25 because he knew it was the actual date Jesus was born or for other reasons? Would the irony you experience over this trivial matter go away if protestants started celebrating Christmas on Dec 26?

And what about Good Friday/Easter. Popes got that date wrong now didn’t they?
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Why didn’t Protestants pick another date to celebrate Christmas if they rejected most other things instituted by the Pope?
 
The exact date of Christmas was not “chosen” by the Pope. WHO told you that?
 
Roblox84 said:
Why didn’t Protestants pick another date to celebrate Christmas if they rejected most other things instituted by the Pope?
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Becaue we like to give folks like you something to crow about. It’s a simple pleasure for sure.

Basically the Bible is silent on Christmas the holiday. One day to celebrate it is as good as the other. I cannot speak for everyone, but this particular Bible-believing Christian rejects any churches teachings that are either not supported by the Bible or against the teaching of the Bible. Not everything the CC teaches is against the Bible’s teaching.

The way Christmas has been hijacked by the secular world, I think we would all be better off without it, the meaning has totally been replaced by the gift giving aspect.
 
Roblox84 said:
I posted this on another thread, but I wanted to start a thread to get a larger audience. Any new denomination can reject the authority of the Pope because they feel like he doesn’t have any power, but doesn’t the Pope still have power over a lot of things that any regular Pastor can’t do, but the Pastor still adheres to? Wasn’t it the Pope who picked the dates of Christmas and other religious holiday’s that are now even celebrated by Protestants who reject the Pope? And didn’t the Pope have a lot to do with authorizing canons of the bible? If this is so how can someone say that the Pope has no power if even Protestants today are doing what certain Popes set up years ago?
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The Pope did not single-handedly pick Christmas, the canon, etc. etc. Not sure where you got this but it’s simply not true. The Pope may have radified the canon but that’s a mere formality. The church councils are more responsible for the items you are describing above. The Pope’s power as you say is extremely limited which is why local Bishops have more autonomy on many items. The infallibility of the Pope only extends to matters of faith and morals and has very specific conditions under which it is used. I believe there have only been 2 infallible declarations ever made which were both related to Marian doctrines (Immaculate Conception, and the Assumption). Technically one could argue that the initial declaration of Papal infallibility would have to be infallible itself in order for it to work but that’s a different discussion.

Although considering the official doctrine of Papal infallibility wasn’t invoked until 1870 the only official infallible doctrine made was the assumption of Mary. The immaculate conception was done in 1850 but had almost universal support of the Bishops.

In the end it’s not a matter of Protestants accepting the things that the Pope did because he did not do them. This is more of an argument for what is acceptable with regard to sacred tradition versus scriptural directives. Acceptance of church traditions by Protestant denominations has and probably always will be discussed here ad nauseum.

PEACE:)
 
Roblox84 said:
I posted this on another thread, but I wanted to start a thread to get a larger audience. Any new denomination can reject the authority of the Pope because they feel like he doesn’t have any power, but doesn’t the Pope still have power over a lot of things that any regular Pastor can’t do, but the Pastor still adheres to? Wasn’t it the Pope who picked the dates of Christmas and other religious holiday’s that are now even celebrated by Protestants who reject the Pope? And didn’t the Pope have a lot to do with authorizing canons of the bible? If this is so how can someone say that the Pope has no power if even Protestants today are doing what certain Popes set up years ago?
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The Pope, the Bishop of Rome, was given jurisdiction over the west by the early councils. As a bishop, he is equal to other bishops. So, of course he has power, over his jurisdiction. Why on earth would it be necessary for Lutherans, for example, who share the same history with Rome (part of the western Church), to reject things that had been agreed upon before the Lutheran Reformation?

Are you saying that if we disagree with the Pope about 1 thing, we have to disagree with him about everything? I think, frankly, it is kind of nutty to question the things we agree about, instead of celebrating them. We read the same scripture, agree on the same early councils. It just makes sense that there would be a whole bunch of things we agree on.
Let’s give thanks for that.

Jon
 
BrianH said:
The exact date of Christmas was not “chosen” by the Pope. WHO told you that?
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Origin of Christmas

Pay particular attention to the second half of the section titled “Rome” and the influence of Pope Liberius I. While the date was not set in stone by Papal decree, his record is the earliest mention we have on the use of December 25th for the feast known as “Natalis Christi”, which was used to replace the Roman holiday “Natalis Invicti”.
 
Just because somebody is not incapable of being incorrect, it does not follow that they are always incorrect. Even a broken watch is right two times a day.

And on some issues, like the date of Christ’s birth, it isn’t all that important anyway.
 
Basically the Bible is silent on Christmas the holiday. One day to celebrate it is as good as the other. I cannot speak for everyone, but this particular Bible-believing Christian rejects any churches teachings that are either not supported by the Bible or against the teaching of the Bible. Not everything the CC teaches is against the Bible’s teaching.
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{underlining is mine 🙂 }

Ironically, the bible that you support was complied and put together by the Christian Church which now is split into Orthodox and Catholic. Either way, by rejecting the power of popes/patriarchs/church fathers to influence religious practice and tradition, you are in fact rejecting the scripture because it was created by them. After all, its not like the apostles handed out bibles to Christian communities, it was done through tradition handed down by bishops (ie, the apostles).
 
Cojuanco said:
I’m well aware of that, but a lot of Protestants seem to be selective on which of the Pope’s teachings and regulations they adopt and which they reject. I’m just pointing it out.
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I think that history and common sense would answer as to why.
 
AmateurPianist said:
Just because somebody is not incapable of being incorrect, it does not follow that they are always incorrect. Even a broken watch is right two times a day.

And on some issues, like the date of Christ’s birth, it isn’t all that important anyway.
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This is so correct, it’s amusing. Good post.🙂
 
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