The Pope is NOT God!

[misslollipops]

How about Catechism

pp 882. Vicar of Christ to have supreme universal power to be exercised unhindered

pp937 Pope enjoys supreme full immediate universal power in the care of souls

All that power sounds like God Almighty!

 

[exoflare]

Could I also call myself a Vicar of Christ?

“**A **vicar of Christ, perhaps… just not THE Vicar of Christ”. With the Pope, it’s an official title signifying his office. Of course we all represent Christ as you said, but not all necessarily in the same manner or capacity.

 

[exoflare]

How about Catechism

pp 882. Vicar of Christ to have supreme universal power to be exercised unhindered

pp937 Pope enjoys supreme full immediate universal power in the care of souls

All that power sounds like God Almighty!

I don’t follow how you see this as being like God?

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

How about Catechism

pp 882. Vicar of Christ to have supreme universal power to be exercised unhindered

Sounds like the ‘Catechism’ you are quoting from, misslollipops, is one you invented.

My CCC does not have pages 882 and 937: so, WHAT are the PARAGRAPH numbers of your alleged assertions???

Robert

 

[jmcrae]

I did some investigating into canon law:

        Canon law 1404: Holy See will be judged by no one

        Canon law 752: Catholics must submit their will   and
                               intellect to the supreme pontiff

You may not consider him God but he sure has some power!

My boss has even more power than that - at least the Pope can’t take away my livelihood.

Ever worked any place where you could get away with not believing in the product that they sell? (Ever tried buying the competition’s product? Not likely, right?) Same with being Catholic. Can’t be Catholic if you don’t believe in the product.

Simple business sense, don’t you think?

 

[Hellisreal]

My boss has even more power than that - at least the Pope can’t take away my livelihood.

Ever worked any place where you could get away with not believing in the product that they sell? (Ever tried buying the competition’s product? Not likely, right?) Same with being Catholic. Can’t be Catholic if you don’t believe in the product.

Simple business sense, don’t you think?

You can do this and more at the mega Jesus store.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

I did some investigating into canon law:

        Canon law 1404: Holy See will be judged by no one

misslollipops, sorry for the bad pun here, but I am afraid someone has taken you for a sucker.

Your first paragraph (1404) in under the “Trials in General” section of the Law and under “The Competent Forum” subsection.

It refers to ecclesiasical ‘trials’ concerning Catholic clergy and Catholic issues. The Vatican is a city-state, misslollipops.

No state, including the USA, consents to another country or entity taking it to court. Read our Constitution.

This paragraph has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with ‘judging’ other churches or belief systems by the Pope.

You’re blowing smoke here, lolly.

Robert

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

misslollipops:

Your second point is also taken out of context.

Canon Law paragraph 752 states as follows:

“Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of Bishops declares concerning faith and morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.”

In simple terms for you: it is doctrine that Christ was on this earth as man and as God; it is doctrine that he died and was resurrected on the third day; it is doctrine,…well,

why don’t you look at the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed (also in the Catechism) to get the idea of WHAT this paragraph is referring to: on issues of FAITH and MORALS we, as believing Christians, should make the FREE will choice to believe it (although not an assent of faith) mind and spirit.

The mind part is the intellect, lollipops.

Come on, quit this goofy “proof-texting” routine on Catholic writings. It doesn’t work in Scripture and it won’t work on the Catechism (which is also based upon Scripture: OR DID YOU CONVENIENTLY IGNORE THOSE SECTIONS??)

Robert

 

[Leopard]

Sounds like the ‘Catechism’ you are quoting from, misslollipops, is one you invented.

My CCC does not have pages 882 and 937: so, WHAT are the PARAGRAPH numbers of your alleged assertions???

Robert

Those are the paragraph numbers, although she is selectively quoting those paragraphs incompletely.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Those are the paragraph numbers, although she is selectively quoting those paragraphs incompletely.

Thanks, Leopard, I was trying to get her to give the whole quotation in context.

Robert

 

[Leopard]

Thanks, Leopard, I was trying to get her to give the whole quotation in context.

Robert

Ah. Beg pardon. Carry on.

 

[AngelsAmongUs]

Yeah, I noticed too the quotes are incomplete and taken out of context. But I guess that matters not when you are trying to prove you’re right.

 

[misslollipops]

I’m not trying to prove anything.
You can cut and paste all of those references. The catechism and canon law are available on line.
I just didn’t feel like typing all those words.
Not trying to hide anything. You can look them up. I don’t think I left out anything important.
My reason for posting was I didn’t know if all the Catholics on this sight were privy to the fact that their will and intellect MUST be submitted to the pontiff. When I first read it I was quite surprised at the strong language.

 

[misslollipops]

Canon Law paragraph 752 states

“Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of Bishops declares concerning faith and morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.”

In simple terms for you: it is doctrine that Christ was on this earth as man and as God; it is doctrine that he died and was resurrected on the third day; it is doctrine,…well,
CONVENIENTLY IGNORE THOSE SECTIONS??)

Thank you for putting it in simple terms.
It seems to state that ANY doctrine concerning FAITH OR MORALS must be submitted to.
I have a very small brain and all these things have to be explained to me, sorry.

 

[Teflon93]

Canon Law paragraph 752 states

“Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of Bishops declares concerning faith and morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.”

In simple terms for you: it is doctrine that Christ was on this earth as man and as God; it is doctrine that he died and was resurrected on the third day; it is doctrine,…well,
CONVENIENTLY IGNORE THOSE SECTIONS??)

Thank you for putting it in simple terms.
It seems to state that ANY doctrine concerning FAITH OR MORALS must be submitted to.
I have a very small brain and all these things have to be explained to me, sorry.

The highest penalty under canon law is excommunication—not imprisonment or death or such secular penalties. Excommunication is the denial of sacraments.

Thus this “highly controversial” bit you’ve dug up means “If you refuse to acknowledge the teaching authority of the Catholic Church in matters of faith and morals you may be excommunicated.”

The only shocking aspect to this is that any Catholic would find it shocking. I am not surprised at all that Protestants would cluck-cluck at it; they are ever holding the Catholic Church to much higher standards than their own communities. Given the number of posters on this forum who recounted being shunned within their Protestant communities not for having sinned, but for having been subject to a personal tragedy (taken by false Christians to be a “sign” of their lack of faith), I think it’s simply precious the number of posts we get from our Protestant brothers and sisters along this vein.

When Dan Brown finally writes, “The Martin Luther Code”, perhaps you’ll find better uses for your time than conspiracy mongering over here.

 

[Hellisreal]

As Jesus spoke with authority, His church does as well. To find a wishy washy weak language spoken in a church should send off warning bells.
You dont have to have a large brain for this,
there is not a single topic that non catholics have brought to the table here that has not been addressed fully.

We are not going to be
By each posting that a non catholic finds and sees as a firecracker ready to blow the roof off the Church.

Its all been done before. Hang around and see for yourself.

I’m not trying to prove anything.
You can cut and paste all of those references. The catechism and canon law are available on line.
I just didn’t feel like typing all those words.
Not trying to hide anything. You can look them up. I don’t think I left out anything important.
My reason for posting was I didn’t know if all the Catholics on this sight were privy to the fact that their will and intellect MUST be submitted to the pontiff. When I first read it I was quite surprised at the strong language.

 

[JustaServant]

Who knows, I’ll probably be hung for this, but here goes…

Why is it that I keep hearing some of my catholic friends worship the pope, and put him on such a high pedestal? Calling him “Christ on earth”, and saying that he is infallible, invincible, etc. This is idolatry at its worst.

The Bible says of Jesus that there is no other name by which men can be saved (Acts 4:12). There is only one mediator between God and men, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5). There is no Biblical foundation for claiming to be a representative of Christ on earth. No man could do what Christ has done, or what Christ is now doing on behalf of humankind. But the title of vicar also carries with it another implication: that the bearer has the same jurisdictional power of the official he represents. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus Christ is the one who says He will build His church, He never delegates this power. By claiming the title of Vicar of Christ, the reigning pope is, in fact, promising to do what Christ promised.

Jesus does indeed predict a “vicar” in the sense of a “replacement” for His physical presence here on earth. However, this “vicar of Christ” is not a priest, high priest, bishop, or pope. The only Biblical “vicar of Christ” is the Holy Spirit. John 14:26 says, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” John 14:16-18::, “And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.” The Holy Spirit is Christ’s “replacement” on the earth. The Holy Spirit is our Counselor, Teacher (John 14:26), and guide into all truth (John 16:13).

In claiming that the pope is the “vicar of Christ,” the Catholic church rejects the sufficiency and supremacy of Christ’s priesthood, and grants to the pope roles that Christ Himself declared would belong to the Holy Spirit. It is therefore blasphemy to ascribe to the Pope the title of “vicar of Christ.”

And for the record…I am not some kind of troll that just wants drama, but I really want us all to THINK about things…we have to use our brains, and use critical thinking ,and be skeptical, and analyze things for ourselves…we do not just have to blindly obey anyone or accept what they say as absolute truth.

I am not “Catholic”, but I am a Christian…there are many things that I absolutely adore about the Catholic faith…and I would actually like to join the church…but this whole Pope issue is what really irks me. He is NOT GOD!

I would highly suggest further inquiry into this issue before making such statements, your facts are wrong. I will stop short of calling you a liar in your experience with ‘Catholic friends’, I will assume you either misunderstood them or are exagerating the encounter.
I can tell you from personal experience, educated in a Catholic school, and having parents who were not particularily happy with the changes of Vatican 2, the Pope is not worshipped.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Every priest, pope, bishop, patriarch when he celebrates the Mass and says “This is my body” is the “sweet Christ on Earth” as he is acting in persona Christi. The Eucharist is really truly the body blood soul and divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

As to the reference of “Our Lord Pope” “Lord” didn’t mean GOD i.e. Yahweh it merely meant “ruler”. When they called the Pope “Our Lord Pope” back in the day they didn’t mean “Our Lord God Yahweh”, they meant “Leader of Christians on Earth”.

 

[jmcrae]

When they called the Pope “Our Lord Pope” back in the day they didn’t mean “Our Lord God Yahweh”, they meant “Leader of Christians on Earth”.

Yes - “Lord” as in “Lord High Muckymuck of East Swamp End and Cattle Ridge (Population: 12),” simply meaning “he with whom we register our complaints.”

 

[Hellisreal]

Yes - “Lord” as in “Lord High Muckymuck of East Swamp End and Cattle Ridge (Population: 12),” simply meaning “he with whom we register our complaints.”

How much you wanna bet someone here thinks you commited “blasphemy”?



I’m willing to put 20 on the table right now.