The pope should ban this..?

[LoveandMercy]

You do realise, do you not, that many non-Catholics have exactly the same problem with the fact that we call priests ‘Father’, the Pope ‘Holiness’ and the like? Are you suggesting that we do away with any and all such titles?

Personally iv never addressed any priest with a title other than father… however it would be better for the church if they never included an addressed style especially for people like bishops, its a small argument within the church as I see that every single person that is a priest/bishop/etc are there to be your servant and not to make their authority felt … just referring to Matthew 21:24-28 but then what would Jesus say on people like police mayors presidents etc etc from that bit in the bible? they always make their authority felt… therefore if they’re not imitating Jesus… what are they imitating? Its not just this that i see the church following earthly standards… iv seen it in other things such as getting a CRB check before you become something in the church or needing to get certain grades to get in to the priesthood etc… these are earthly thinking situations are they not? by the way im not arguing with any of you just simply putting opinions across

 

[LoveandMercy]

OP,

Is it not also prideful to declare what is a sin (“I really think this is a great sin”), presume to know the sinfulness of others (“thinking they’re superior to you”, " i dont even basically care what mayors do they’re all corrupt"), and think yourself a valid authority to offer your opinions on theology to your priest (“Should I speak up on my opinion to the parish”)?

I never said it is i said i really think this is… its up for debate not actuality and in cases in my life all the mayors iv ever met always think themselves with more superiority than me and others. you really seem old school mr oldcatholicguy as in the fact people think you can’t speak ‘opinion’ to your own priest… of course you can!

 

[anruari]

To an earlier poster:
I know this is pedantic, and splitting hairs but:
The Title “Lady” belongs to the Wife of a Lord. A woman who has the female equivalent position to a Lord is called “Dame”
(Aka Dame Margaret Thatcher)

On another point not every Mayor is a Lord Mayor. Lord Mayor is an additional title bestowed on the Mayor of specific towns or cities. I’ve not done the research, but I assume that in history those seats automatically granted their occupant the rank of "Lord, and therefore a seat in the House of Lords.
Most modern democracies have severed many of these links, and abolished most of the old feudal political structures, even where the names remain.

To the O.P. I believe you are somewhat contaminated with several misapprehensions. Many of these stem from a communist perspective, or rather the ideologies that gave rise to communism, wherein every person gets the title “Comrade” and no other titles exist. Communism, and it’s ideologies have been defined as Evil, and Sinful by our Church, and with good reason. Be very careful when attempting to draw a proper understanding of Social Justice from political ideologies which have their roots in Socialism and Communism. If this area interests you then I would advise you to read and study the “Compendium of Social Doctrine of the Church”

At the end of the day we live in a world which needs a structure of authority. the alternative is Anarchy. Anarchy does not reflect the Lords wishes for us.

Even in the days of The Judges, Our Lord God raised Judges to rule over His People in the House of Israel. Then he gave them a King, and prophesied the coming of a King of Kings from the Royal Line of King David.

Our Lord is King of Kings. Does that mean we should not call any person “King” or “Queen”… Or the democratic equivalent “President”?

A very good example of the importance of Honorific titles is seen in the Army.
When a person salutes an officer, it is the Office not the person which is saluted. In the British Army the Office is derived from the command of The Queen (Or King), and it is the vested authority in the Officers Commission which is being acknowledged.

Similarly in the Church, when we honour our Priests, it is not in some mistaken belief that that man is truly Holy, and in no way a belief that they are sinless. On the Contrary, it is honoring their Anointed and Ordained Position bestowed on them by God to do a particular service.

First is the Deacon. A Servant and Messenger. There is no traditional honourific other than “Reverand Deacon” (Abbr. Rev. Dcn. John Smith) and they are normally addressed as Mr Smith, or Deacon John.

Next is the Presbyter or Priest. He if bestowed with the authority of “stand in Persona Christi” and say the words of the Consecration, to bring to Earth the Bread of Life. We call him “Father” because he is our spiritual father. He is our pastor, and responsible for leading his parish and feeding us with the Bread of Life. In the same way he again stands “In Person Christi” when he hears our confession to The Lord, and says the words of Absoloution over us.

When we Honour a priest it is Ordination which we honour. It is the power and authority of Jesus Christ Himself which we honour, not the humble servant on which that power is bestowed.

As we rise through the hierarchy, the next major mile stone is the Episcopate (the Bishops). They stand in the role which the Apostles had in the early church. They are our Apostles.
They have the authority to “Bind And Loose” granted to them by Jesus Himself. They have the God Given status of Rulers they are truly Lords.
In the 21st Century they have renounced any claim to Political Lordship and furthermore have written into Cannon Law that no cleric may hold political office without having their clerical office suspended or revoked.

The Pope is the pre-eminent bishop. He has the authority to rule over the other bishops and sits in the chair of Peter. He is Christ’s representative here on Earth. (aka The Vicar of Christ)

Again when we honour him it is not the Man whom we honour. it is the office he holds and the authority of Christ bestowed upon him.
Look at our current Pope. See how humble a man he is.
Look at Pope emeritus Benedict. See how humble he was to actually resign the post to make way for someone who was better able to do the job, as his health was failing, and he was being unsuccessful in his chosen missions to reunite the wider church. A more humble man was better suited to the challenges of today’s church and that is what the Holy Spirit gave us.

 

[LilyM]

Personally iv never addressed any priest with a title other than father… however it would be better for the church if they never included an addressed style especially for people like bishops, its a small argument within the church as I see that every single person that is a priest/bishop/etc are there to be your servant and not to make their authority felt … just referring to Matthew 21:24-28 but then what would Jesus say on people like police mayors presidents etc etc from that bit in the bible? they always make their authority felt… therefore if they’re not imitating Jesus… what are they imitating? Its not just this that i see the church following earthly standards… iv seen it in other things such as getting a CRB check before you become something in the church or needing to get certain grades to get in to the priesthood etc… these are earthly thinking situations are they not? by the way im not arguing with any of you just simply putting opinions across

But the very word ‘bishop’ itself is, as you put it, ‘an addressed style especially for people like bishops’.

If I meet a bishop I’m certainly never going to call him ‘Joe’ or ‘dude’ or ‘you there in the big pointy hat’. At the VERY least I will call him ‘Bishop’. He is NOT just like everyone else, he IS put by God into a position of authority over me, and I will honour that by calling him at least by the title proper to him.

Likewise with your mayor. I’m not, in public at least, going to call her ‘Jo’ or ‘dudette’ or ‘you there in the funny costume who the voters have put in charge of the city’ either. And since I am going to call her ‘Mayor’ at the very least, and ‘Lord Mayor’ is no worse.

St Paul spoke about how we are to be obedient and respectful (in everything that is not sinful) to the civil authorities because they have also been given authority over us by God.

Now remember the monarchical and mostly undemocratic system he lived in - all the more amazing the that he tells his readers to respect the civil authorities. Not on the same level as religious authority, true, but more than justification enough for the occasional honorific.

 

[anruari]

Its not just this that i see the church following earthly standards… iv seen it in other things such as getting a CRB check before you become something in the church or needing to get certain grades to get in to the priesthood etc… these are earthly thinking situations are they not? by the way im not arguing with any of you just simply putting opinions across

Ok get real here. The CRB check is a requirement imposed by the Law of England and Wales. it is not a church requirement. It is a Civil Law requirement from which no church or other organisation in the UK is exempt if they deal with children or vulnerable adults.
Now considering the massive scandals of abuse which have rocked the church around the world do you not think that it is essential that the church has a means of checking the backgrounds of staff and volunteers to make sure they don’t have court orders that they may not be near children or vulnerable people? that they don’t have a history of violent crime, or a history of theft and fraud? Every volunteer is placed into a position of trust, and it would be crazy to put someone into such a position if they have a criminal record which is hidden or unexplained.
The CRB check is just that. A requirement of the applicant to disclose any criminal record, and a check against the national databases to ensure they have been truthful,and to check that they are not prohibited by policies or court orders from engaging in work or activity which involves such a position of trust.
Applicants for training programmes in preparation for possible ordination (possible candidates for Priesthood or the Diaconate) are subject to a **far **more intrusive check… They must undergo a “medical examination” which involves a minimum of a 1 week stay in a psychiatric evaluation center and have extensive 1:1 evaluation of their mental state, motives and deepest drives.

 

[anruari]

You queried "needing to get certain grades to get in to the priesthood etc… "

now you’re just being daft. what university would not place suitable minimum entry requirements?
The Seminary college is a very intensive programme of 7 - 10 years of study, which will include the equivalent of 2 bachelors degrees, studying Theology and Philosophy.

Lets assume a person is studying in English, but coems from a country which does not speak English…
How could He undertake an intensive training course - equivlaned to a Law degree, in English if he is not fluent in the written and spoken language?

Furthermore he needs to have demonstrated the capability to study and learn. Have suitable intellectual capability to engage in the academic courses needed. If a person was unable to pass his GCSE English exams how can he possibly expect to spend 7 years full time writing essays and engaging in Critical Thinking for a degree in Philosophy and Theology?

Most seminary colleges are academically subordinate to some other larger university or national university system. These larger universities will also have mandatory entrance requirements which must be met.
Now in preparing for the priesthood, because the requirements are governed by Cannon Law, an individual bishop does have the authority to ask his seminary to bend the rules for a given candidate if there is good reason to do so… but that candidate would probably need to face significant hurdles in “Catching Up” with his class mates.

A priest is not just someone who says Mass and hears Confession. He is also the Pastor for his FLock, and a Teacher of The Truth. He MUST be intellectually capable of the study necessary to prepare him for that job.
He must be very highly literate… otherwise it would be impossible for him to do his job.

Many priests are educated far beyond this level. Most Jesuits have at least one PHD or equivalent Doctorate. Most candidates for the short list of potential bishops are expected to have at least 2 doctorates, including a D.Div (Doctor of Divinity).

So Grade requiremnts for getting into seminary?
If you dont have the ability to get a C or better in Mathematics you are not capable of rational thought. you have not trained you mind in Logic which is essential. You may not need to be able to apply advanced calculus to be a priest, but you must have the ability to apply Critical Thinking and Logic, and in the UK education system maths is the only subject which teaches Logic.

If you dont have the ability to get a good grade in English at GSCE or preferably A-Level higher, you simply dont have the knowledge in reading Comprehension and essay writing which will be the bulk of the study you will undertake every day for the following 7 years.

If you don’t have the aptitude to get a good grade in History, how can you expect to study the History of the Church and understand how we got from the day Jesus ascended into Heaven and the books of the New Testament were written to the state of Catholocism and Christianity Today… that’s a Huge gulf and many people will want to ask their priests questions about it.

If you don’t have a basic understanding of science how can you explain the apparent discrepancies between Faith and Scripture and the teachings about God of “Scientists” like Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking who step far beyond their scientific knowledge and attempt to draw conclusions about the existence or otherwise of God from their fields of Biology and Astrophysics respectively… making giant “Leaps of Faith” and spawning a new religion of Athiestic Scientism.

Candidates for the Priesthood or for the permanent diaconate have an absolute need to have the intelligence and academic aptitude to engage in the required programme of study.
Modern universities were set up as seminaries, and have evolved into the modern university system… it’s not that the Church has adopted this worldly system at all. the World has adopted the churches system of Minor and Major Seminaries and called them High Schools and Universities respectively, and broadened the range of subjects they teach. The Collegiate system again was an invention within Seminaries. and again was adopted and used in (some) secular universities.

 

[CatholicGeek1]

Personally iv never addressed any priest with a title other than father… however it would be better for the church if they never included an addressed style especially for people like bishops, its a small argument within the church as I see that every single person that is a priest/bishop/etc are there to be your servant and not to make their authority felt … just referring to Matthew 21:24-28 but then what would Jesus say on people like police mayors presidents etc etc from that bit in the bible? they always make their authority felt… therefore if they’re not imitating Jesus… what are they imitating? Its not just this that i see the church following earthly standards… iv seen it in other things such as getting a CRB check before you become something in the church or needing to get certain grades to get in to the priesthood etc… these are earthly thinking situations are they not? by the way im not arguing with any of you just simply putting opinions across

The reason you need a background check is to be put in a position of trust around children. Maybe that is an Earthly thing but given the fact that there are many less than honest people out there, we have a duty to our children to try and protect them.

As for needing certain grades to become a priest, I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect that someone who will be teaching others, demonstrate that they are capable of proper learning and studying themselves.

 

[CatholicGeek1]

To an earlier poster:
I know this is pedantic, and splitting hairs but:
The Title “Lady” belongs to the Wife of a Lord. A woman who has the female equivalent position to a Lord is called “Dame”
(Aka Dame Margaret Thatcher)

On another point not every Mayor is a Lord Mayor. Lord Mayor is an additional title bestowed on the Mayor of specific towns or cities. I’ve not done the research, but I assume that in history those seats automatically granted their occupant the rank of "Lord, and therefore a seat in the House of Lords.
Most modern democracies have severed many of these links, and abolished most of the old feudal political structures, even where the names remain.

To the O.P. I believe you are somewhat contaminated with several misapprehensions. Many of these stem from a communist perspective, or rather the ideologies that gave rise to communism, wherein every person gets the title “Comrade” and no other titles exist. Communism, and it’s ideologies have been defined as Evil, and Sinful by our Church, and with good reason. Be very careful when attempting to draw a proper understanding of Social Justice from political ideologies which have their roots in Socialism and Communism. If this area interests you then I would advise you to read and study the “Compendium of Social Doctrine of the Church”

At the end of the day we live in a world which needs a structure of authority. the alternative is Anarchy. Anarchy does not reflect the Lords wishes for us.

Even in the days of The Judges, Our Lord God raised Judges to rule over His People in the House of Israel. Then he gave them a King, and prophesied the coming of a King of Kings from the Royal Line of King David.

Our Lord is King of Kings. Does that mean we should not call any person “King” or “Queen”… Or the democratic equivalent “President”?

A very good example of the importance of Honorific titles is seen in the Army.
When a person salutes an officer, it is the Office not the person which is saluted. In the British Army the Office is derived from the command of The Queen (Or King), and it is the vested authority in the Officers Commission which is being acknowledged.

Similarly in the Church, when we honour our Priests, it is not in some mistaken belief that that man is truly Holy, and in no way a belief that they are sinless. On the Contrary, it is honoring their Anointed and Ordained Position bestowed on them by God to do a particular service.

First is the Deacon. A Servant and Messenger. There is no traditional honourific other than “Reverand Deacon” (Abbr. Rev. Dcn. John Smith) and they are normally addressed as Mr Smith, or Deacon John.

Next is the Presbyter or Priest. He if bestowed with the authority of “stand in Persona Christi” and say the words of the Consecration, to bring to Earth the Bread of Life. We call him “Father” because he is our spiritual father. He is our pastor, and responsible for leading his parish and feeding us with the Bread of Life. In the same way he again stands “In Person Christi” when he hears our confession to The Lord, and says the words of Absoloution over us.

When we Honour a priest it is Ordination which we honour. It is the power and authority of Jesus Christ Himself which we honour, not the humble servant on which that power is bestowed.

As we rise through the hierarchy, the next major mile stone is the Episcopate (the Bishops). They stand in the role which the Apostles had in the early church. They are our Apostles.
They have the authority to “Bind And Loose” granted to them by Jesus Himself. They have the God Given status of Rulers they are truly Lords.
In the 21st Century they have renounced any claim to Political Lordship and furthermore have written into Cannon Law that no cleric may hold political office without having their clerical office suspended or revoked.

The Pope is the pre-eminent bishop. He has the authority to rule over the other bishops and sits in the chair of Peter. He is Christ’s representative here on Earth. (aka The Vicar of Christ)

Again when we honour him it is not the Man whom we honour. it is the office he holds and the authority of Christ bestowed upon him.
Look at our current Pope. See how humble a man he is.
Look at Pope emeritus Benedict. See how humble he was to actually resign the post to make way for someone who was better able to do the job, as his health was failing, and he was being unsuccessful in his chosen missions to reunite the wider church. A more humble man was better suited to the challenges of today’s church and that is what the Holy Spirit gave us.

 

[LoveandMercy]

to Anruari… did you say my ideologies stem in a sense of evil? how on earth is it evil if im just trying to get back to basics and not blinding titles… if it makes them feel better they can have those titles… what is evil is these authorities such as police… mayors etc misusing their authorities… and talking of kings (saul) God warned that if he appointed a king over them, they would suffer from the dealings of the king. it doesnt mean that everything is legit when it comes to kings these days… and now i see your point with the rest on the first post not on to your second post… you tell me to get real hahahaha!! now anyway say if someone gets fitted up to a crime and it goes on their crb check … then the church rejects them from getting the job or position? so thats flawed right there, plus if a murderer came to me and was a totally changed person i would completely forgive them and give them the chance they need! then on the 3rd post you go on to say im ‘daft’ hahaha your not looking outside the box…its flawed on so many levels, for one the exam boards teachings are not 100% legit, in 100 years time we will have a more cleverer system than the one we have now so why isnt the church putting together their own education board in order to get in to the priesthood… im talking on the sense that say I was in a position where i wanted to go the priesthood and i never had the qualifications and i wanted to get in … i would need to go to sixthform, now say if they never had the courses i was interested in? does that mean id have to do a course completely irrelevant to what the priesthood was to teach me, there is only one way in my church and that is to get A levels… no alternative root at all… now what am i to do if it costs money to get to there and i havent got the support to fund the courses?? the church need to open up a pre seminary again… the amount of money for training a priest is disgraceful… i hope pope francis looks at this and takes it back to the roots it needs by looking on how Jesus chose Peter… he never asked him to show him a certificate with grades on. now i understand on needing to be clever but say i you had true wisdom inside of you granted by the spirit but instead the church want to see a piece of paper with grades on them?? the opportunities the church is offering these days for seminary is quite sad to see! there is going to be a big crisis in the future if it carrys on being this way… completely less priests. i kind of skipped over your other points, not much time on my hands! peace and love anyway!

 

[anruari]

to Anruari… did you say my ideologies stem in a sense of evil? how on earth is it evil if im just trying to get back to basics and not blinding titles…

No I warned to be careful about taking popular ideologies from “the world” which often are derived from sources with intrinsic evil in the root of those sources (even if well intentioned and miss-guided). I didn’t say your understanding was evil but that you appear to be promoting ideas which have been developed and promoted by a movement that is evil.

if it makes them feel better they can have those titles… what is evil is these authorities such as police… mayors etc misusing their authorities…

Absoloutely true… Power corrupts.

and talking of kings (saul) God warned that if he appointed a king over them, they would suffer from the dealings of the king.

and the Judges before the Kings were all peaches and roses were they? On the contrary before the kings there was ANARCHY, with occasional leaders rising from the tribes to instill some form of temporary order. You misunderstand the didactic / Pedagogical meaning of the History Books.

now anyway say if someone gets fitted up to a crime and it goes on their crb check … then the church rejects them from getting the job or position? so thats flawed right there, plus if a murderer came to me and was a totally changed person i would completely forgive them and give them the chance they need!

The guidelines on the CRB check are very clear:
If a person has a criminal record he must declare it. If he does that before the check is carried out then the nature and consequences of that record can be discussed and appropriate decisions made by negotiation and suitable policy. It is forbidden (but that rule is miss applied) for a company to automatically reject candidates just because they have a record if the nature of the crime does not make them totally unfit for the job.

If you fail to disclose a criminal record which then shows up on the CRB check you have committed perjury. and the organisation is strongly advised to have a policy of automatically rejecting the candidate.

There are also checks against “List 99” and one or two other databases for people who have court orders to not work in jobs with access to children or vulnerable adults.

So just because someone does have a blot on their record does not mean that they cannot apply to do voulinteer work, or even apply to the seminary. They just need to be very clear before they even get handed the forms to fill in, that something will show up, and explain what that is.

then on the 3rd post you go on to say im ‘daft’ hahaha your not looking outside the box…its flawed on so many levels, for one the exam boards teachings are not 100% legit, in 100 years time we will have a more cleverer system than the one we have now so why isnt the church putting together their own education board in order to get in to the priesthood…

Why on earth should they create a parallel system they already have a network of educational schools for young men of that age group. they are called “High Schools” and “6th Form Colleges”, some were originally linked to the seminaries, but now conform to the legal requirement to provide an education to students in common with other national curriculum schools.
Now due to various political and social reasons the UK no longer has any dedicated Junior or Minor Seminaries. but as there is nationalised, free secondary education and a wide range of catholic high schools and colleges they are not strictly essential (though a great pity they have ceased)

 

[anruari]

im talking on the sense that say I was in a position where i wanted to go the priesthood and i never had the qualifications and i wanted to get in … i would need to go to sixthform, now say if they never had the courses i was interested in? does that mean id have to do a course completely irrelevant to what the priesthood was to teach me, there is only one way in my church and that is to get A levels… no alternative root at all… now what am i to do if it costs money to get to there and i havent got the support to fund the courses??

Any junior seminary or minor seminary in the uk would need to teach a suitable, internationally recognised syllabus. If it was not teaching A-Levels then who would pay for that education?
If you haven’t been to 6th form then why don’t you go? It’s paid for by the Government if you’re of typical age.
What subjects do you believe are not relevant?
You need English
You need some Maths
You need some Natural Sciences.
you could study R.E.
You could Study Philosophy
You could study Classics
You could study a language or 2
all these are relevant to later training as a priest. how can you suggest taht any major 6th form college would not teach a-levels in English, Maths and Science? There may not be many offering Latin, and only a few more offering Classics, but many offer Phsycology and Sociology… Very usefull subjects. Many offer Philosophy… essential. Any Catholic school would offer RE or even better a course in Catholic Catechism or Catholic History.

the church need to open up a pre seminary again… the amount of money for training a priest is disgraceful…

Those are 2 very divergant points.
The costs of running a university are very high. Seminaries are universitys. An international student or a post-graduate student needs to find around £10,000 - £15,000 per year to attend most universities. Why should the state fund the Catholic Church to train their priests? therefore the church must find that kind of money to train each seminarian… oh wait it’s going to be more, because the Seminary wont have many thousands of students, they’ll have a few dozen at most… so a whole university must be funded to teach a few dozen students. that’s hugely expensive.
Now most dioceses will not ask a candidate for the priesthood to pay a contribution if he cant afford to, they will take the funding from direct donations to the seminary or from general funding for the dioceses.

You’re now asking them to set up free church funded High schools, that wont be eligible for state funding, and will cost several thousand per term per pupil, To educate kids who are thinking they just might want to apply to the major seminary a few years later???

Where is this money supposed to come from? How much do you see people putting in the offertory plate every sunday at mass? I see lots of coins and few notes… Catholics don’t “Tithe 10%” few even come close to 1%. The Church in the UK is Poor. it cant afford to pay for the heating for many parishes, never mind refurbishments. and you think they should pay for new High-Schools when the government already pays for a very good system?

i hope Pope Francis looks at this and takes it back to the roots it needs by looking on how Jesus chose Peter… he never asked him to show him a certificate with grades on. now i understand on needing to be clever but say i you had true wisdom inside of you granted by the spirit but instead the church want to see a piece of paper with grades on them?? the opportunities the church is offering these days for seminary is quite sad to see! there is going to be a big crisis in the future if it carrys on being this way… completely less priests. i kind of skipped over your other points, not much time on my hands! peace and love anyway!

Interesting thought… Most seminaries in the english speaking world are experiencing exactly the opposite of what you predict. Most are taking in the highest numbers of students since Vatican 2. The same is true in other parts of the world.
Of course that’s still going to leave a gap, as the old priests are reaching retirement age faster than new priests can be trained in… but the answer is not what you suggest… it is to restore a sense of the Sacred to our churches. It is to remember that every Christian is called to be an evangelist. It is to fill the Pews. It is to teach the fullness of the truth with no equivocation. These new priests are coming out of movements that do exactly that.
Some are traditionalist, others are charismatic… and everything in between, but they all have been taught to Love Jesus and to evangelise.

I see your point. but at the end of the day a Priest needs a very good university education. Their studies are not for the feint-hearted. they cost the church a huge ammount of money. It would be pure stupidity of the church to send someone to a seminary if they did not have a 6th form education with grades and subjects suitable for the university course they are applying for.

Now if you were to give real consideration to the fact that the course is a challenging as a Law degree, and those typically require AAB grades, yet the seminaries will condisider candidates with BCC grades… I think your point is rather turned on it’s head.

They insist you have proved the ability to study, and achieve reasonable pass marks. They do not insist on the grades that would be expected for an equivalent course for non seminarians.

 

[LoveandMercy]

No I warned to be careful about taking popular ideologies from “the world” which often are derived from sources with intrinsic evil in the root of those sources (even if well intentioned and miss-guided). I didn’t say your understanding was evil but that you appear to be promoting ideas which have been developed and promoted by a movement that is evil.

hahaha popular ideologies? its quite straight forward i dont like the name Lord getting used other than for God and no other person deserves it… even look at mark 12:35-38 i think it is… not quite as direct but Jesus still acknowledged the use of the word Lord not being Davids son… you can make connections here to what the name Lord should be used for! your promoting ideas because you got misguided and jumping on the band wagon of this now earthly title… no wonder people are misusing the names Jesus and God on a regular basis… the Devils plan… open up your eyes.

Why on earth should they create a parallel system they already have a network of educational schools for young men of that age group. they are called “High Schools” and “6th Form Colleges”, some were originally linked to the seminaries, but now conform to the legal requirement to provide an education to students in common with other national curriculum schools.
Now due to various political and social reasons the UK no longer has any dedicated Junior or Minor Seminaries. but as there is nationalised, free secondary education and a wide range of catholic high schools and colleges they are not strictly essential (though a great pity they have ceased)

The educational system they are using today are very secular even in catholic schools… very rare to get a good catholic school…

 

[LoveandMercy]

Any junior seminary or minor seminary in the uk would need to teach a suitable, internationally recognised syllabus. If it was not teaching A-Levels then who would pay for that education?
If you haven’t been to 6th form then why don’t you go? It’s paid for by the Government if you’re of typical age.
What subjects do you believe are not relevant?
You need English
You need some Maths
You need some Natural Sciences.
you could study R.E.
You could Study Philosophy
You could study Classics
You could study a language or 2
all these are relevant to later training as a priest. how can you suggest taht any major 6th form college would not teach a-levels in English, Maths and Science? There may not be many offering Latin, and only a few more offering Classics, but many offer Phsycology and Sociology… Very usefull subjects. Many offer Philosophy… essential. Any Catholic school would offer RE or even better a course in Catholic Catechism or Catholic History.

Once you get to the age of 19 it cost money. RE is clearly 50% irrelevant learning about things thats not even religious but rather a bunch of morals what people live by thats not connected to God in any way shape or form. English is only for people who done outstanding on their GCSES same applies to maths same with languages so theres that…!

Those are 2 very divergant points.
The costs of running a university are very high. Seminaries are universitys. An international student or a post-graduate student needs to find around £10,000 - £15,000 per year to attend most universities. Why should the state fund the Catholic Church to train their priests? therefore the church must find that kind of money to train each seminarian… oh wait it’s going to be more, because the Seminary wont have many thousands of students, they’ll have a few dozen at most… so a whole university must be funded to teach a few dozen students. that’s hugely expensive.
Now most dioceses will not ask a candidate for the priesthood to pay a contribution if he cant afford to, they will take the funding from direct donations to the seminary or from general funding for the dioceses.

I just think they should open the pre seminary again or atleast set something up rather than seeing a vocations director once every two months like I do here… whilst basically learning nothing… priests back in the 1960s era had it completely more easy than now.

Where is this money supposed to come from? How much do you see people putting in the offertory plate every sunday at mass? I see lots of coins and few notes… Catholics don’t “Tithe 10%” few even come close to 1%. The Church in the UK is Poor. it cant afford to pay for the heating for many parishes, never mind refurbishments. and you think they should pay for new High-Schools when the government already pays for a very good system?

Yes i know true but maybe set something else up rather than having a hopeless future for these people who are in a situation like this… i dont know… maybe learn from their local priests even though priests now are very busy here.

I see your point. but at the end of the day a Priest needs a very good university education. Their studies are not for the feint-hearted. they cost the church a huge ammount of money. It would be pure stupidity of the church to send someone to a seminary if they did not have a 6th form education with grades and subjects suitable for the university course they are applying for.

This seminary is almost turning out to be something for the cleverest people in the world … i dont know if you know what others situations are… is this how God wants it ? or is there another better solution? obviously there is … your just dealing with what youve got because it suits you

They insist you have proved the ability to study, and achieve reasonable pass marks. They do not insist on the grades that would be expected for an equivalent course for non seminarians.

These exam boards do NOT define how clever a person is… its only their projection on how they want you to be… i done my GCSES years ago and i dont remember a thing… im pretty sure you dont either!.. most things people learn are not useful at all… i would present a much stronger opinion on such things as i have done in the past but i see no point as your caught up in the perfection of what you think we have today and argue left right and center which is a pity !