The Pope Who?!?!

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acctually if you go back he told them not to follow their words… they sit at the seat of moses and they have false power… try reading it again
I am **extremely offended **by your username. Are you here to mock us Catholics by making such vulgar username? Where is your charity?

Have you actually look at the forum rules.

CONDUCT RULES
  1. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate **but must be respectful of the faith **of the Catholics participating on the board.
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acctually if you go back he told them not to follow their words… they sit at the seat of moses and they have false power… try reading it again
You are mistaken here. Jesus said, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. (Matthew 23:2-3)

So you see, Jesus told his disciples that they must obey the leaders because of their valid authority.

“Do everything they tell you.”
 
“christians” today are separted from truth because of their ignorance… i don’t think christ came so we could sit in mass and go through the same motions. most christians act like their perfect and there are people killing themselves in the “church” today because no one is open to talk about their problems. christ medicated the sick, him and the apostles didn’t sit around and for 30 minutes sunday and pat eachother on the back and then go back to their sinful lives, no they were out “living” God’s message and dying for it.
Actually, the first Christians sat at Jesus’ feet all day every day for three years…they were called Apostles.
 
Hi,
you sound like someone who has some very serious issues and who seems very embittered about both the Catholic Church and organized religion in general. I wonder whether a discussion here on an internet forum will give you the answers, serenity and healing you really seem to be looking for.

Maybe it would be better if you contacted a priest in your area, sat down with him and “threw” your questions at him. A personal conversation could probably help you more than an internet “conversation” - that’s quite impersonal and confrontational after all.
I agree. I sense a whole lot of pain in the OP. The phrase “killing themselves in the ‘church’,” says a lot. I hope the OP hears your counsel and seeks out healing with a good spiritual, knowledgeable priest.

I have often heard that anger can be a mask for fear and frustration.
 
“christians” today are separted from truth because of their ignorance… i don’t think christ came so we could sit in mass and go through the same motions. most christians act like their perfect and there are people killing themselves in the “church” today because no one is open to talk about their problems. christ medicated the sick, him and the apostles didn’t sit around and for 30 minutes sunday and pat eachother on the back and then go back to their sinful lives, no they were out “living” God’s message and dying for it.
And how my youthful brother do you intend to live out God’s message? The acrimony you’ve presented thus far seems very un-Christ-like. I’m willing to debate and discuss the facts about the Church, but if you want to simply sling arrows, you may not have the desired effect. Let’s face it, people have been insulting my faith for 2,000 years, but that doesn’t change the truth, which is that fact that God is love. I challenge you to read Deus Caritas Est, and then return with a more reasoned argument.
 
“christians” today are separted from truth because of their ignorance… i don’t think christ came so we could sit in mass and go through the same motions. most christians act like their perfect and there are people killing themselves in the “church” today because no one is open to talk about their problems. christ medicated the sick, him and the apostles didn’t sit around and for 30 minutes sunday and pat eachother on the back and then go back to their sinful lives, no they were out “living” God’s message and dying for it.
WOW - You’re a pretty angry person.
Personally, I think you are like some of those other people who come here only to antagonize - not to have serious dialogue. Unfortunately, some people enjoy trying to get a rise out of others for the sake of fun.

Okay - ENLIGHTEN us.
Why DID Jesus come if not to establish his kingdom - if not to establish his Church (Matt. 16:18-19) and how would YOU do it differently?
 
i have to sit through catholic teachings everyday at school and get fed the same {stuff} everyday… and trust me, i’ve approached catholism open minded, but there is so much stuff in scripture that shows christ wasn’t a religious person at all.
First, I see where you’re coming from, because I used to think the same things.

Regarding sitting through Catholic teachings everyday (or going to Mass every Sunday), there was a time in my life when I didn’t go to church every Sunday. I am reminded of a great story, which I think is true. I don’t have the specific details, but you’ll get the idea. A man sent a letter to the editor of a newspaper, complaining that he doesn’t see why he needs to go to church every week. He said “I’m over 40 years old, and have been going to church every Sunday since I was a kid. In all, that’s over 2000 sermons I’ve heard, and I cannot recall even one. If I don’t remember anything the preacher said, why should I even bother to go?” A week later, someone else sent a reply, saying, “Since you’re over 40 years old, I assume you’ve been married over 20 years. Your wife has prepared meals for you every day since you’ve been married. Even at one meal a day, that comes to over 7000 meals. How many of those specific meals can you recall? But if you had not eaten them, what condition would you be in physically?” The point, of course, was that he benefitted spiritually from attending church, though he couldn’t recall the sermons, just as he benefitted physically from meals he couldn’t recall.

As far as Jesus not being into organized religion, well, as a Jew he faithfully attended synagogue even into adulthood, when he read the famous passage from Isaiah. As a child, he followed the Jewish laws along with his parents. And, he clearly established an earthly authority to shepherd his flock. That was Peter, the first Pope. No the word “Pope” is not in the Bible, but neither is “trinity”. There are many words and phrases created/used to explain things which Jesus taught specifically, or the church (which Jesus established) taught after Jesus ascended into Heaven. Jesus established an authority on earth to bind and loose, to forgive and retain, etc. Jesus said, “He who rejects you, rejects Me, and Him who sent Me.”

Regarding why you can’t simply interpret the Bible yourself, well, I’ve been there, too. I was born and raised Southern Baptist. I remember being taught that the Holy Spirit will help each of us understand the Word of God. But even at my young age, it didn’t make sense. If there is only one Word of God, and only one Holy Spirit to lead us to one interpretation/truth, why were there so many interpretations? The answer came to me very late in life, which I finally understood that Jesus provided for a single authority to shepherd His flock (as explained previously).

Regarding equating the many “rules” of the Catholic Church with the many rules of the Pharisees, I wondered the same thing. However, to understand something best, you have to start with a basic premise about some part of it. The foundation of course, is that Jesus established an authority on earth, and promised to protect it from the gates of Hell. If you believe that basic premise, then of course you must accept what that authority, established by Jesus, says. If you reject it, you reject Him.

Now you can seek a better **understanding **of what the Church teaches. Many, if not all, of us have doubts, misunderstandings, etc., and there is nothing wrong with asking why the Church says something. We will not be perfected until we get to Heaven.

That brings me to my last point. It is certainly true that we go to Church, hear the Word, then go out into the world and fail to live up to it. That includes everyone, even the Popes. No one will be perfect until we get to Heaven, but God wants us to try our best, and ask forgiveness via the confessional when we fail.

I’ll pray for you. Please do the same for me.
 
i just don’t get why i can’t read and study the bible on my own without some big organization “the catholic church” looking over my shoulder… the catholic church has almost become exactly what how jesus viewed the pharisees in matthew 23… I go to a catholic and we have required mass… and 90% of the people in there are just “going through the motions” of mass. there is no heart in it, Jesus wasn’t into organized religion, i don’t see any better example of this then in matthew 23. People are so used to getting preached at, this whole religion thing has lost its heart.
You seem to be talking to yourself. You do not seem to be reading anything anyone else is saying to you.
 
People like these are out there in the world ready to attack uneducated Catholics. We need to make a YouTube team and attack a-Cs. 🙂 Yes there are plenty on YouTube, but we need to make it so big that it gets on the news. Lol. My opinion.

Back to homework. 🙂
 
People like these are out there in the world ready to attack uneducated Catholics. We need to make a YouTube team and attack a-Cs. 🙂 Yes there are plenty on YouTube, but we need to make it so big that it gets on the news. Lol. My opinion.

Back to homework. 🙂
Haha gotta love this youthful ambition that i love so much.
haha.
 
Hey Universalrats I hope you are still reading these responses. On the Catholic Mass I would like to share something with you from St. Justin the Martyr. I assume from your comments you arent too keen with the whole Saint thing, but just look at this from the perspective of early Christian writings, or as completely historical considering his audience. It is from “The First Apology” written in between 147-161 ad with the purpose to prove to the emperors, renowned as upright and philosophical men, the injustice of the persecution of the Christians, who are the representatives of true philosophy. And here is what is says on the Mass.
CHAPTER LXVII – WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS.
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
CHAPTER LXV – ADMINISTRATION OF THE SACRAMENTS.
But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to genoito [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.
 
CHAPTER LXVI – OF THE EUCHARIST.
And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.
The post was too long so I had to start a new one. But I pray you read this and know that the Catholic Mass is the same as what it has been since a little over 100 years after Christ’s death. That tradition is pretty amazing. And yes, it is very sad that there are those that “just go through the motions” because if they knew what was really going on in the Mass there is no way you can just go through them. All the “motions” of the Mass are all there for a reason, even the standing and kneeling and sitting used to show God respect and reverence for His word and the Holy Sacrafice. And the responses are the Church as one speaking to God in His own language.
My suggestion to you is to pray for these people as I will be praying for you. God bless my brother or sister in Christ

In Him,
Kyle
 
And yes, it is very sad that there are those that “just go through the motions” because if they knew what was really going on in the Mass there is no way you can just go through them. All the “motions” of the Mass are all there for a reason, even the standing and kneeling and sitting used to show God respect and reverence for His word and the Holy Sacrafice.
Exactly! Many people don’t take the time to understand why we do the things we do at the Mass, and therefore don’t participate in it as fully as possible.

If you will permit me to use a secular analogy to explain a divine mystery, it is like someone who’s never learned the rules and strategies of football sitting down to watch a game. Obviously, they will probably laugh at it and make derisive remarks, like “Why don’t they just all run after the guy with the ball before he throws it? Some are running away from him. That’s just dumb! I don’t get this game at all. Why would anybody want to watch it?”

If they took a little time to learn offensive and defensive strategies, then they’d understand and appreciate the game more. If they took even more time to understand the history of the game, the teams, the players, the rivalries, etc., their level of enjoyment would increase dramatically.
 
Exactly! Many people don’t take the time to understand why we do the things we do at the Mass, and therefore don’t participate in it as fully as possible.

If you will permit me to use a secular analogy to explain a divine mystery, it is like someone who’s never learned the rules and strategies of football sitting down to watch a game. Obviously, they will probably laugh at it and make derisive remarks, like “Why don’t they just all run after the guy with the ball before he throws it? Some are running away from him. That’s just dumb! I don’t get this game at all. Why would anybody want to watch it?”

If they took a little time to learn offensive and defensive strategies, then they’d understand and appreciate the game more. If they took even more time to understand the history of the game, the teams, the players, the rivalries, etc., their level of enjoyment would increase dramatically.
Great Analogy.

But I would use this verbage:

Many Protestant’s understanding toward the Mass

equates to

Many Women understanding toward the game of Football.
 
This person obviously didn’t really want and answer, just to upset people. Sad. 😦
 
currently hes suspended though. hope when he gets back, he’ll ask more 🙂
 
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