The Pope

[Philthy]

Hey singin!

The only thing I want to add is that the Pope is the person who contains the power that the holy Spirit uses to guide the faithful in matters of faith and morals when needed. This gift can not and never has, in 2 thousand years contradicted the infallible declarations of previous Popes. It is precisely because of this special gift of the holy Spirit(as distinct from the individual gifts of the holy Spirit that we all get) that he is so revered . Want to know the cool part? He recieves this gift through the “layin on of hands” after all the bishops meet to pray to God for discernment in choosing him just like in the beginning(see Acts), and there is an unbroken line of hand laying from St Peter to him…

Very cool…

Phil

 

[MonicaC]

Subrosa:

SING-in-beauty, NOT SIN-in-beauty! It changes her whole character!

That is really funny. I am actually laughing, Thank you.

 

[adnauseum]

At the time when John Paul II died a few months ago, I was sitting at lunch with my 10 year old son.

I said, you know some people think it’s wrong that we have a pope because they think we worship him like a god.

My boy got the most puzzled look on his face, and said emphatically: the pope is a servant.

Later, we listened together when Pope Benedict XVI said his first words as pope, referring to himself as a laborer from the vineyard. I reminded my boy of what he said the week before, and he shrugged as if it were the most obvious thing in the world

My 10 year old son naturally grasped the concept of the pope.

 

[On_my_way]

adnauseum:

At the time when John Paul II died a few months ago, I was sitting at lunch with my 10 year old son.

I said, you know some people think it’s wrong that we have a pope because they think we worship him like a god.

My boy got the most puzzled look on his face, and said emphatically: the pope is a servant.

Later, we listened together when Pope Benedict XVI said his first words as pope, referring to himself as a laborer from the vineyard. I reminded my boy of what he said the week before, and he shrugged as if it were the most obvious thing in the world

My 10 year old son naturally grasped the concept of the pope.

Maybe some of us can learn from kids like yours. God bless.

 

[NonDenom]

Singinbeauty:

Again… not trying to be repetative or attack anyone but I would like to know in your words who the Pope is and what function he holds in the catholic church and in other denominations.

I have heard so many things and I know that they aren’t all true. I don’t want to say what I have heard before I hear what you describe and I can throw out the junk and keep the truth. Thank you!

Hi
I know that this is going to make you mad but you ask the question and I’m just being honest. I am not saying this to offend anybody. The pope is no more important to me than my neighbor.
The fact that he was willing to cover up the priest sex abuse problem in order to protect the integrity of the church was realy sad. I also believe that it is not healthy to hold any man in as high reguards as the Catholic church does the pope. He is also NOT the successor to Peter. The original church looked nothing like todays church, we have wasted so much money on huge buildings with marble floors and gold statues. How many of the starving could have been fed, the sick cared for, the unclothed clothed. How many people who didn’t have a chance to here about Christ could have heard if we hadn’t spent millions on fancy buildings? Sorry for the rant but we as Cats and Prots have realy missed the boat on this one. The one Catholic I realy respect is
Mother Teresa.
Thanks.

 

[Zooey]

NonDenom, with all respect: How do you know what the “original church”–whatever & wherever that may be–…How do you know what it looked like? The truth is that you don’t know. This is simply petulance.
I read something very beautiful once: A man went to some of the laborers who were working on Notre Dame in Paris, & asked each man what he was doing.
The first said, carrying bricks & stones.
The second said, sawing wood.
The third said, “I am honoring God”.
Building a beautiful church is a way of acknowledging that God is the only true sovereign Lord.
And, by the way, all those workers?? They were feeding & housing their families with the wages for their work. They were earning money to buy medicine, clothing, all manner of things for their loved ones.

I would humbly suggest that you read the Old Testament accounts of the building of the Jewish temple. Like the temple, churches are built, not for idle display. They are built for the honor & glory of God, the God Who, for our sakes humbled Himself, & accepted death–the death on the Cross.
Think about this a little. Then ask how you can honor the Lord of all. God bless.

 

[Catholic29]

Zooey:

NonDenom, with all respect: How do you know what the “original church”–whatever & wherever that may be–…How do you know what it looked like? The truth is that you don’t know. This is simply petulance.
I read something very beautiful once: A man went to some of the laborers who were working on Notre Dame in Paris, & asked each man what he was doing.
The first said, carrying bricks & stones.
The second said, sawing wood.
The third said, “I am honoring God”.
Building a beautiful church is a way of acknowledging that God is the only true sovereign Lord.
And, by the way, all those workers?? They were feeding & housing their families with the wages for their work. They were earning money to buy medicine, clothing, all manner of things for their loved ones.

I would humbly suggest that you read the Old Testament accounts of the building of the Jewish temple. Like the temple, churches are built, not for idle display. They are built for the honor & glory of God, the God Who, for our sakes humbled Himself, & accepted death–the death on the Cross.
Think about this a little. Then ask how you can honor the Lord of all. God bless.

I agree Zooey

He has made little snide remarks in other threads about our faith, which he obviously is rather ignorant of. It is true the Catholic Church has never built its large beautiful Cathedrals with marble floors et all, for the glorification of the priests, bishops, cardinals etc on their altars, but rather that the granduer which meets our eyes is ALL for the glory of God.

When we see large beautiful Churches, we think of them within the context of the Temples of Jerusalem. With their Holy of Holies being the Ark of the Covenant, and with ours today being the Eucharist.

 

[adnauseum]

At the time when John Paul II died a few months ago, I was sitting at lunch with my 10 year old son.

I said, you know some people think it’s wrong that we have a pope because they think we worship him like a god.

My boy got the most puzzled look on his face, and said emphatically: the pope is a servant.

Later, we listened together when Pope Benedict XVI said his first words as pope, referring to himself as a laborer from the vineyard. I reminded my boy of what he said the week before, and he shrugged as if it were the most obvious thing in the world

My 10 year old son naturally grasped the concept of the pope.

 

[NonDenom]

Catholic29:

I agree Zooey

He has made little snide remarks in other threads about our faith, which he obviously is rather ignorant of. It is true the Catholic Church has never built its large beautiful Cathedrals with marble floors et all, for the glorification of the priests, bishops, cardinals etc on their altars, but rather that the granduer which meets our eyes is ALL for the glory of God.

When we see large beautiful Churches, we think of them within the context of the Temples of Jerusalem. With their Holy of Holies being the Ark of the Covenant, and with ours today being the Eucharist.

Hi
Just because I’m not Catholic does not mean that I’m ignorant of your church, my wife was born and raised Catholic and most all her family are Catholics. We talk often with each other about our beliefs. You say that I’m the one that is picking on you? go back and read the post, I said Catholics and Protestants were guilty of this. When someone uses the word ‘‘we’’ they usally mean the person they are talking to and themselves. The great commission
tells us to go and make Disciples of all nations(Math 28:18-20). Jesus came to save those who were lost (Math 18: 11) and then he commissioned us to relay that message to others, not build big fancy churches in all nations. Please show me in the new testament where Jesus says that we should do this.
Thanks.

 

[NonDenom]

Zooey:

NonDenom, with all respect: How do you know what the “original church”–whatever & wherever that may be–…How do you know what it looked like? The truth is that you don’t know. This is simply petulance.
I read something very beautiful once: A man went to some of the laborers who were working on Notre Dame in Paris, & asked each man what he was doing.
The first said, carrying bricks & stones.
The second said, sawing wood.
The third said, “I am honoring God”.
Building a beautiful church is a way of acknowledging that God is the only true sovereign Lord.
And, by the way, all those workers?? They were feeding & housing their families with the wages for their work. They were earning money to buy medicine, clothing, all manner of things for their loved ones.

I would humbly suggest that you read the Old Testament accounts of the building of the Jewish temple. Like the temple, churches are built, not for idle display. They are built for the honor & glory of God, the God Who, for our sakes humbled Himself, & accepted death–the death on the Cross.
Think about this a little. Then ask how you can honor the Lord of all. God bless.

Hi
With all do respect the early church did not meet in some big fancy building, they were affraid to meet in big groups for fear of being killed so most met in their homes. I have thought alot about this and I know that I can better serve God by helping those in need and telling them about the good news that helping to build a fancy church building. Remember to store up your treasures in Heaven and not on earth(Math 6:19-20).
Thanks.

 

[E.E.N.S]

NonDenom:

Hi
With all do respect the early church did not meet in some big fancy building, they were affraid to meet in big groups for fear of being killed so most met in their homes. I have thought alot about this and I know that I can better serve God by helping those in need and telling them about the good news that helping to build a fancy church building. Remember to store up your treasures in Heaven and not on earth(Math 6:19-20).
Thanks.

Amen, and nobody does this as well as does the Church!

 

[Trick]

NonDenom:

Hi
With all do respect the early church did not meet in some big fancy building, they were affraid to meet in big groups for fear of being killed so most met in their homes. I have thought alot about this and I know that I can better serve God by helping those in need and telling them about the good news that helping to build a fancy church building. Remember to store up your treasures in Heaven and not on earth(Math 6:19-20).
Thanks.

I agree that probably the early Catholics did not meet in large churches due to the persecution.

I am certainly glad that they were later able to build beautiful churches, giving honor,glory and love to the Lord.

Trick

 

[space_ghost]

…from the dictionary…

The Pope is the Catholic Bishop and patriarch of Rome, and head of the Catholic Church. The office of the Pope in which the Pope controls is called the Papacy; his ecclesiastical jurisdiction is called the Holy See (Sancta Sedes). Early bishops of Rome were designated “vicar (representative) of Peter”; for later Popes the more authoritative “vicar of Christ” was substituted; this designation was first used by the Roman Synod of AD 495 to refer to Pope Gelasius I, an originator of papal supremacy among the patriarchs.

In addition to this spiritual role, the Pope also serves as head of state of the independent, sovereign State of the Vatican City, a city-state and nation entirely enclaved by the city of Rome. Prior to 1870, the Pope’s temporal authority extended over a large area of central Italy, a territory more familiar as the Papal States that was formally known as the “Patrimony of St Peter”. Though the document on which the territorial powers of the Pontificate were based—the so-called Donation of Constantine—was proved a forgery in the 15th century, the Pope retained sovereign authority over the Papal States until the Italian Unification of 1870, and a final political settlement between the Italian government and the Pope was not reached until the Lateran Treaties of 1929.

The current pope is Benedict XVI (born Joseph Ratzinger), who was elected at the age of 78 on 19 April 2005. He succeeds the late John Paul II, who was elected at the age of 58 in 1978.

Pope Benedict XVI is the second non-Italian to be elected to the pontificate since Adrian VI, who was briefly pope in 1522-23, (John Paul II (pope 1978-2005) was the first), and is also the first German to take the seat since the 11th century (although it can be argued that Adrian VI, who is considered both Dutch and German - he lived in Holland but came from German ancestors, and Holland had yet been separated from Germany - was the last German pope). In some quarters, it is felt that Benedict’s election as pope is further evidence that the papacy is moving away from being an Italian-dominated institution.

…hope this helps…

 

[sententia]

And when Jesus was in Bethania, in the house of Simon the leper,

7 There came to him a woman having an alabaster box of precious ointment and poured it on his head as he was at table.

8 And the disciples seeing it had indignation, saying: To what purpose is this waste?

9 For this might have been sold for much and given to the poor.

10 And Jesus knowing it, said to them: Why do you trouble this woman? For she hath wrought a good work upon me.

11 For the poor you have always with you: but me you have not always.

 

[mercygate]

Catholic29:

I agree Zooey

He has made little snide remarks in other threads about our faith, which he obviously is rather ignorant of. It is true the Catholic Church has never built its large beautiful Cathedrals with marble floors et all, for the glorification of the priests, bishops, cardinals etc on their altars, but rather that the granduer which meets our eyes is ALL for the glory of God.

When we see large beautiful Churches, we think of them within the context of the Temples of Jerusalem. With their Holy of Holies being the Ark of the Covenant, and with ours today being the Eucharist.

Just a detail tlhat puts some of the building in perspective: those buildings – including the early basilicas in Rome dating from the 4th Century – have been in continuous use for the purpose for which they were built – some of them for 1700 years: non stop. Many (I among them) have been drawn to the feet of Christ by first having been attracted by the beauty of those buildings.

 

[Ignatius]

NonDenom:

The original church looked nothing like todays church. . . .

Hi NonDenom,

We are, or course, not speaking of the building, but the Church as a whole. How fortunate that you were guided to make your inquiry at this time as I just came across some information in that regard. Here it is:

Discerning the Church which Christ founded.

There are a few things we know about this true church:

1. It was built by Jesus Christ himself (Matt 16:18) which means that the “true church” must be about 2000 years old.
2. Jesus only built ONE church (Matt 16:18).
3. This church is the God -ordained upholder, protector and defender of the truth (1 Tim 3:15).
4. This church is the fullness of Christ (Eph 1:22-23) which means that it is also the fullness of truth (John 14:6).
5. The unity of this church will be proof to the world that Jesus was sent by God (John 17:21,23). In order for this unity to be seen by the world this church must be a visible church.
6. The unity of this church must be a unity like that which exists between Jesus and the Father (John 17:21-23), therefore there can be no contradictions in doctrine. The Father and the Son do not disagree on doctrine therefore neither can the “true church”.

Also, there is ample historical evidence, especially the writings of the early Christians who came after the Apostles and were taught directly by them, Like Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp.

May God richly bless you in your search for His Truth. May Jesus guide you to the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

Your brother in Christ.

 

[uther]

NonDenom:

Hi
I know that this is going to make you mad but you ask the question and I’m just being honest. I am not saying this to offend anybody. The pope is no more important to me than my neighbor.
The fact that he was willing to cover up the priest sex abuse problem in order to protect the integrity of the church was realy sad. I also believe that it is not healthy to hold any man in as high reguards as the Catholic church does the pope. He is also NOT the successor to Peter. The original church looked nothing like todays church, we have wasted so much money on huge buildings with marble floors and gold statues. How many of the starving could have been fed, the sick cared for, the unclothed clothed. How many people who didn’t have a chance to here about Christ could have heard if we hadn’t spent millions on fancy buildings? Sorry for the rant but we as Cats and Prots have realy missed the boat on this one. The one Catholic I realy respect is
Mother Teresa.
Thanks.

I’ve thought about these things as well. It was pointed out to me once that Christ rebuked those who would have taken the expensive perfume from the woman who was washing his feet with it ostensibly to feed the poor. He said they would always have the poor. In other words, you can have both, fancy cathedrals to honour the Creator and the Redeemer of man, and at the same time take care of the poor.

And is it not true that the poor will always be with us, regardless of the reasons for it? Has the U.S. not spent in the order of $5 Trillion since the New Deal on welfare and poverty programs and are there not still many poor? That is not a judgement, it’s just a fact. We will always have plenty to do to help the poor, cathedrals or not.

You are right in the idea that the early church didn’t have fancy buildings because they were underground, hiding from the government. And if that situation were repeated, and all the great buildings were lost, it wouldn’t change the Catholic Faith one iota, and the Pope, even if he were in hiding, would still be the successor to Peter. What would be helpful would be to read what those early Christians wrote about what they believed. You will find they were Catholic and deferred to Peter as the head of the Church.

 

[Catholic29]

NonDenom:

Hi
Just because I’m not Catholic does not mean that I’m ignorant of your church, my wife was born and raised Catholic and most all her family are Catholics. We talk often with each other about our beliefs. You say that I’m the one that is picking on you? go back and read the post, I said Catholics and Protestants were guilty of this.

Okay, since you honestly are of the belief that you know alot about my church, I apologize for my remarks implying you were being sarcastic about my faith. However as we well know, Catholics and Protestants differ greatly in their theology (as it is apparent we do too), one denomination may build a large fancy church for one reason and the other for another.

When someone uses the word ‘‘we’’ they usally mean the person they are talking to and themselves. The great commission tells us to go and make Disciples of all nations(Math 28:18-20). Jesus came to save those who were lost (Math 18: 11) and then he commissioned us to relay that message to others

No argument here, I say a big AMEN to all of that.

not build big fancy churches in all nations. Please show me in the new testament where Jesus says that we should do this.

Now this is in my humble opinion where you get off track. In the world of Catholic evangelism, the building of big fancy churches happens well “after” the good news of Jesus Christ is spread and those nations are made Disciples of his. Then of course there are the elements of Tradition within Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy (with Anglicanism to an extent), where churches are used to administer the Sacraments and not only for preaching and praising like most Protestant and Non-Denominational Christians use them for.

Again I apologize for my previous comments, and I hope this gives you a better understanding of where I as a Catholic am coming from. Though it remains to be seen if you find it at all convincing.

Thanks.

No problem.

God Bless.

 

[Zooey]

NonDenom:

Hi
With all do respect the early church did not meet in some big fancy building, they were affraid to meet in big groups for fear of being killed so most met in their homes. I have thought alot about this and I know that I can better serve God by helping those in need and telling them about the good news that helping to build a fancy church building.

Ah, but this is my point! We do not live in those days, thank God! And surely there is no better way to show ourselves thankful, than to honor the Lord Jesus Christ as the King of kings???Or should we leave Him, again, in a stable???

Remember to store up your treasures in Heaven and not on earth(Math 6:19-20).Thanks.

My greatest treasure in Heaven, next to the presence of my King, is my beloved parents. It was they who taught me that we are to serve God as He deserves, not by tossing Him our leftovers.
God bless.

 

[justathought]

I may be wrong, but I think the point nondenom was trying to get across was that in the Old Testament, the tabernacle and temples were made mighty and glorious because that was the people’s ONLY way to God. Today, we have Jesus as the direct connect (I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life) to God Himself so elaborate buildings are not necessary. I think the point nondenom was trying to make is that the amount of money put into the cathedrals and such could have gone to a much more Noble purpose.

I believe that the major difference between Catholics and Protestants is in the Church that Peter began. Catholics see the Church founded by Peter as a religion; Protestants see it as Christianity.

I personally feel that Jesus’ purpose was to make Christianity a non-religion. I believe this because of Galatians 2:11-21. When Paul rebukes Peter, it is because he is being too religious. Jesus rebuked the legalism of the Pharisees as did Paul of Peter.

Peace be upon all who read this