The Pope

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justathought,

As usual, the Catholic response is not either/or but both/and.

The biggest part of Catholic evangelism to the non-Christian world takes place far outside the confines of the Cathedral walls. This has been the case from the beginning, right back to the apostles.

The Israelites had the Ark of the Covenant, God in-dwelling one place only whereas we have Jesus in Eucharist, in the tabernacles across the world, and we have the Holy Spirit in the majesterium of the Church, protecting against the gates of Hell and each one of us has the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit as we make Jesus Christ the Lord of our individual lives.

That’s what is known as the fullness of truth.
 
uther said:
justathought,

As usual, the Catholic response is not either/or but both/and.

The biggest part of Catholic evangelism to the non-Christian world takes place far outside the confines of the Cathedral walls. This has been the case from the beginning, right back to the apostles.

The Israelites had the Ark of the Covenant, God in-dwelling one place only whereas we have Jesus in Eucharist, in the tabernacles across the world, and we have the Holy Spirit in the majesterium of the Church, protecting against the gates of Hell and each one of us has the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit as we make Jesus Christ the Lord of our individual lives.

Hi
I agree with you, we as Christians have since Christ gave our Apostles the great commission evangelized a lost world. Catholics seem to realy stress the point that they have Jesus in th eucharist. Scripture says that where two or more a gathered there he is also, so we have Jesus whenever we gather in his name. I am also greatful for the Holy Spirit and that Christ is the Lord of my life.
Thanks.
 
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NonDenom:
Hi
I agree with you, we as Christians have since Christ gave our Apostles the great commission evangelized a lost world. Catholics seem to realy stress the point that they have Jesus in th eucharist. Scripture says that where two or more a gathered there he is also, so we have Jesus whenever we gather in his name. I am also greatful for the Holy Spirit and that Christ is the Lord of my life.
Thanks.
Catholics don’t limit Jesus being present in the Eucharist alone, however we do say that He is more fully present in the Eucharist than anything else. (We too believe that were two or more are gathered there He is also.)
 
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NonDenom:
Hi
I know that this is going to make you mad but you ask the question and I’m just being honest. I am not saying this to offend anybody. The pope is no more important to me than my neighbor.
The fact that he was willing to cover up the priest sex abuse problem in order to protect the integrity of the church was realy sad. I also believe that it is not healthy to hold any man in as high reguards as the Catholic church does the pope. He is also NOT the successor to Peter. The original church looked nothing like todays church, we have wasted so much money on huge buildings with marble floors and gold statues. How many of the starving could have been fed, the sick cared for, the unclothed clothed. How many people who didn’t have a chance to here about Christ could have heard if we hadn’t spent millions on fancy buildings? Sorry for the rant but we as Cats and Prots have realy missed the boat on this one. The one Catholic I realy respect is
Mother Teresa.
Thanks.
The Catholic Church has done more good for the world and charity than any institution on the face on the earth. Hospitals; orphanages; colleges, all came out of the Catholic Church. Missionaries all around the world, Blessed Mother Theresa being one of them. Carrying on, for 2000 years. Perfect? Not at all. Bad people sometimes in charge? Absolutely. Does this negate Christ’s Church on earth? Absolutely not. Regarding the sex scandal, I doubt the Pope covered anything up. He said it was not only a crime, but horrible sin as well. And he is most certainly the successor to Peter. The Catholic Church brought the good news of Jesus to the earth for almost 400 years before it cannonized and protected the Bible. Obviously you haven’t read your Bible with unclouded eyes. The Catholic Church is absolutely Biblical on everything. It should be—devinely inspired Catholics wrote it, and the Church cannonized it. It’s our book. You stole it-deleted it-perverted it and now try to use it out of context to battle us. I won’t even mention the scripture that warns again changing the word of God and of self-interpretation. The Church of today most certainly resembles the early church, because it IS the early church. Read some unbiased history, please. There are also many excellent tracts right here on this website. And pray for Christ to guide you into all truth.
 
You stole it-deleted it-perverted it and now try to use it out of context to battle us.
Wow RiverRock… This post coupled with another one you wrote leads me to believe you have some MAJOR hostilities towards Protestants… Take a breath dear. Neither I nor anyone else on this board took the bible and twisted it into something different.

But I will remind my protestant brothers and/or sisters to ALSO calm down, take a breath, and try to talk about this subject and others with maturity, respect, and love.

Thank you! 🙂
 
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NonDenom:
The original church looked nothing like todays church, we have wasted so much money on huge buildings with marble floors and gold statues. How many of the starving could have been fed, the sick cared for, the unclothed clothed. How many people who didn’t have a chance to here about Christ could have heard if we hadn’t spent millions on fancy buildings? Sorry for the rant but we as Cats and Prots have realy missed the boat on this one. The one Catholic I realy respect is
Mother Teresa.
Thanks.
First off, the Church is the house of God. Jesus is present in our Catholic Churches in the Tabernacle, and the church is built to house the Tabernacle. Just as Solomon built a beautiful Temple that pleased God, so we too put our finest craftsmanship, architecture, and art forward for the glory of God. You are sounding like the apostles who grumbled at the woman for using expensive perfumed ointment on Jesus’ feet—they too thought that it should sold and the money given to the poor, but Jesus didn’t think so. And what “gold statues” are you talking about?

And drop the “we as Cats and Prots” business. Speak for yourself, and don’t presume to speak for Catholics.
 
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Singinbeauty:
Again… not trying to be repetative or attack anyone but I would like to know in your words who the Pope is and what function he holds in the catholic church and in other denominations.

I have heard so many things and I know that they aren’t all true. I don’t want to say what I have heard before I hear what you describe and I can throw out the junk and keep the truth. Thank you! 🙂
He is also the Servant of the Servants.
 
Non Denom, The Holy Father covered up nothing, and one other thing, just because someone is married to a Catholic doesn’t mean that they aren’t ignorant of what the Church teaches either.
Now, if you really believe that Jesus came for the lost and the sinners, and according to you that is what the Pope is, then I guess Jesus came for him. So, either way, Jesus has him firmly in the palm of His hand.
 
I read on a board when Pope John Paul II died something that made me very upset. The person was commenting on his death, and then said, “I hope that this man truly was with God when he died…” The Pope is, in my opinion, probably one of the, if not the, greatest example of Christ’s love on earth…a true model of a Christian…I don’t care if you don’t agree with his authority or not, there is no mistaking what an amazing person with what an amazing faith he is. the Pope stands for all that I should strive to be on earth, a perfect follower of Christ.
 
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CheesusPowerKid:
the Pope stands for all that I should strive to be on earth, a perfect follower of Christ.
I disagree…Christ stands for all you should strive to be like on earth:)…I know watcha mean though
 
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Vaughn7107:
I disagree…Christ stands for all you should strive to be like on earth:)…I know watcha mean though
Yeah, I meant as a follower of Christ, to me the Pope is the perfect servent of Christ…the “Servent of the servents” as he is called:)
 
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NonDenom:
Hi
I agree with you, we as Christians have since Christ gave our Apostles the great commission evangelized a lost world. Catholics seem to realy stress the point that they have Jesus in th eucharist. Scripture says that where two or more a gathered there he is also, so we have Jesus whenever we gather in his name. I am also greatful for the Holy Spirit and that Christ is the Lord of my life.
Thanks.
That is true.
I cannot explain it fully here but to summarize, because each of us is susceptible to sin, we need as much grace from God as possible to sustain us in our daily lives. That is what the sacraments were instituted to do, as well as the private graces that God gives individuals as their faith grows.

One reason we stress the point is that it hinges on other doctrines and characterizes the difference between us. For example, Protestants cannot have the real presence, because they have nobody validly ordained in the line of apostolic succession to do so. So Protestant communion,* of necessity*, is symbolic.

Yes, where two are three are gathered in His name, He is there in their midst. Absolutely. And He also has so much more to offer.

My real point is that even though we Catholics don’t always appreciate what we do have, God has so much more for the Christian than what the Protestant denominations can offer. That is not to say that they or non-denominational Christians don’t bring people to Jesus. On the contrary. But there is so much more that God has for us.
 
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justathought:
I may be wrong, but I think the point nondenom was trying to get across was that in the Old Testament, the tabernacle and temples were made mighty and glorious because that was the people’s ONLY way to God. Today, we have Jesus as the direct connect (I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life) to God Himself so elaborate buildings are not necessary. I think the point nondenom was trying to make is that the amount of money put into the cathedrals and such could have gone to a much more Noble purpose.
I believe that the major difference between Catholics and Protestants is in the Church that Peter began. Catholics see the Church founded by Peter as a religion; Protestants see it as Christianity.

I personally feel that Jesus’ purpose was to make Christianity a non-religion. I believe this because of Galatians 2:11-21. When Paul rebukes Peter, it is because he is being too religious. Jesus rebuked the legalism of the Pharisees as did Paul of Peter.

Peace be upon all who read thisWhat bunk! And so this falls to us who have maintained not only the faith of the apostles but the art and beauty of Christianity for 2,000 years while you n-Cs come along and build big rec centers and huge churches?

Let’s look at a couple of pertinient passages of the NT real quick here: Re: “Noble purpose”
"John 12:1 Jesus therefore, six days before the pasch, came to Bethania, where Lazarus had been dead, whom Jesus raised to life. 2 And they made him a supper there: and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that were at table with him. 3 Mary therefore took a pound of ointment of right spikenard, of great price, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. 4 Then one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, he that was about to betray him, said: 5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

6 Now he said this, not because he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and having the purse, carried the things that were put therein. 7 Jesus therefore said: Let her alone, that she may keep it against the day of my burial. 8 For the poor you have always with you; but me you have not always."

Re: “religion”:
“James 1:26 And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. 27 Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one’s self unspotted from this world.”

You worry too much about another man’s servant…

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? To his own lord he standeth or falleth. And he shall stand: for God is able to make him stand. 5 For one judgeth between day and day: and another judgeth every day: let every man abound in his own sense.6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord. And he that eateth, eateth to the Lord: for he giveth thanks to God. And he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth thanks to God. 7 For none of us liveth to himself; and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; or whether we die, we die unto the Lord. Therefore, whether we live, or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose again; that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. 10 But thou, why judgest thou thy brother? or thou, why dost thou despise thy brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written: As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 Therefore every one of us shall render account to God for himself. 13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more. But judge this rather, that you put not a stumblingblock or a scandal in your brother’s way.
Pax vobiscum,
 
As an EXAMPLE, I do not see healings performed everyday or 1000s of converts a day
Well, to be fair, I don’t think most of us see those things in most Protestant churches either. Plus, when I read the book of Acts, I don’t see it saying that those things happened everyday back then either.

Maybe not the healings performed everyday but it does say that God added numbers to the early church DAILY.
Acts 2:46-48 (New Living Translation)
46They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity-- 47all the while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people. And each day the Lord added to their group those who were being saved.
 
Singinbeauty:
Maybe not the healings performed everyday but it does say that God added numbers to the early church DAILY.
Very true! I guess what I was saying is that there weren’t thousands of conversions every single day. What glorious days those were when this did happen! 🙂

God Bless!

EDIT: By the way, I’m from Washington too! 👍
 
And if we checked, I’ll bet we’d find that between Catholic evangelization and mission work, many are being added to the Church dailystill.

Just a general question: How come none of the non-denominational posters to this site complain about the huge mega-mega-Non-Denominational churches that are being built in this country at a cost of tens of millions of dollars? You know the ones I mean, the big ugly boxes. Yet they complain about the beautiful and timeless cathedrals Catholics built by hand over many, many years.

Name one thing that IS that is the same now as it was 2000 years ago. God doesn’t count, he’s not a “thing” and he’s outside of time.

Back to Singinbeauty’s original question. The pope is the man who is the direct successor of Peter, whom Jesus designated as the man who would preserve the Church on earth
until he returns.
He holds the keys to the kingdom of heaven and whatever he binds on earth is bound in heaven and whatever he looses on earth is loosed in heaven. (Infallibility when making definitive statements on faith or morals, by the power of the Holy Spirit).
He is the servant of the servants of God (the bishops).
 
E.E.N.S.:
Catholics don’t limit Jesus being present in the Eucharist alone, however we do say that He is more fully present in the Eucharist than anything else. (We too believe that were two or more are gathered there He is also.)
where are you guys going with this? christ said “whenever 2 or more OF YOU gather in my name there I am…” and he was speaking to his apostles. That does not, of necessity, apply in the manner you are suggesting. The “of you” is important because if he meant in the general sense those two words would not have been included. that much being said, I do believe Christ is present in some manner when two gather in his name, or even when we pray alone for that matter, don’t you? That seems different from the verse quoted however.
Now let me get this off my chest non-denom:
You were fast to “quote” the great commission from Matthwe 28, but you edited it grossly - perhaps a little personal theology issue? the great commission was to make disciples THROUGH BAPTISM and teaching. the Catholic Church has served this function faithfully and unwaveringly since the first century. Here let me quote since I had to memorize it:
Matthew 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the father,and of the son and of the holy spirit, teaching all I have commanded you. And behold I am with you always until the end of the age."
come to think of it, it says right there that Christ is with us always - that makes your interpretation of “whenever two of you gather” a little confusing, no?

phil
 
Hi Singin! 🙂
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Singinbeauty:
Maybe not the healings performed everyday but it does say that God added numbers to the early church DAILY.
You’re right, of course, but your point seems irrelevent. Are you suggesting that people aren’t being added to the Catholic Church DAILY? Since that is the only way your statement would have any relevance, I’ll have to assume thats what you meant (even though that is an absurd allegation). In fact, I’ll go so far as to say that given the size of the Church that a thousand people (in reference to the original poster) are added some days.
You know, you are always so nice in your posts and mine always look like Im trying to be mean - Im not!

“That which unites us is greater than that which divides us”

Phil
 
Actually I was just answering a question by another poster who said that, in answer to yet another poster, he/she didn’t see ‘any of those things being done’ when the other poster claimed that we are too focused on the wrong things…
Quote:
As an EXAMPLE, I do not see healings performed everyday or 1000s of converts a day
To this the poster I replied to said…
Well, to be fair, I don’t think most of us see those things in most Protestant churches either. Plus, when I read the book of Acts, I don’t see it saying that those things happened everyday back then either.
I was just pointing out that it DOES say that God did add to the group daily. That’s all I was saying… I wanted to provide the verse in Acts that said that. shrug
 
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justathought:
I think the point nondenom was trying to make is that the amount of money put into the cathedrals and such could have gone to a much more Noble purpose.
With all do respect to you and NonDenom, I believe your view of God is far too small and your view of the problem of poverty too simplistic. Poverty is not due to a lack of resources. We are using only a fraction of the capacity of God’s creation with a food surplus. Yet there is still starvation.

God is infinite and God provides more than enough resources to help the poor and allow us to glorify him with cathedrals. And what other organization can compare to the Catholic church in the number of schools, hospitals and missionaries in the field ministering to the poor?

I have never seen a quote from Mother Teresa lamenting St. Peter’s Bascillica and calling for it to be torn apart and sold for parts. God blesses us with abundance so we can do both.
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justathought:
I believe that the major difference between Catholics and Protestants is in the Church that Peter began. Catholics see the Church founded by Peter as a religion; Protestants see it as Christianity.
The Catholic Church was found by Jesus not Peter. Peter was appointed by Jesus to shepard his flock and was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and he left his church to be the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1st Timothy 3:15). Jesus is the truth and the church is its pillar and bulwark. It is up to you to decide what the difference is between that, Christianity and a religion.
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justathought:
I personally feel that Jesus’ purpose was to make Christianity a non-religion. I believe this because of Galatians 2:11-21. When Paul rebukes Peter, it is because he is being too religious. Jesus rebuked the legalism of the Pharisees as did Paul of Peter.
You have completely turned this passage on its head. Paul is rebuking Peter for being too open and inclusive with the Gentile Christians and threatening the unity of the Church at Antioch by offending the Judeao-Christians who at the time still did not associate freely with the Gentiles as Peter was doing.

If your read just prior to that in Galations 2:1-10 and also in Acts 15:6-12 Paul submits for approval of the elders at Jerusalem what he had been teaching to the Gentiles. Acts relates that after much discussion it was Peter that ended the discussion by saying that Paul was correct.

Therefore, Peter and Paul were in agreement on doctrine it was Peter’s timing that had caused this reaction from Paul because the decision reached had not yet been promulgated to the community there and Paul was afraid of the friction it would cause. Peter showed by his actions that he agreed with Paul’s assessment of the situation.
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justathought:
Peace be upon all who read this
And to you.
 
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