The POPE

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Avila123 said:
Just my take on a couple of your concerns. Firstly the non believers, atheist, morally corrupt and secular media praise what they think Pope Francis said. They don’t listen or read what he actually says or take a few words from a whole message completely out of context. All I can suggest is going to Catholic sources to read what he really said and if it is something that you feel uncomfortable with, check it against scripture, the Catechism and Magistarium (hope I spelt it correctly). For example, I am aware that some people (and I am not implying that you are one of them) struggle with many of the Popes who reach out to a range of people outside the Church, but reaching out to lost sheep (no matter how mucky and lost) is scriptural and part of the mission of the Church.

This is just my view and I hope it helps. I admit I cannot keep up with Pope Francis but then again, that is probably due to me needing to learn more about the faith.
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Right ON, God Bless, Memaw
 
kenmiller said:
When the pope enters into politics and areas where he is not an expert , I believe that harms catholicism. He is speaking with speculation and nothing further
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The whole world concerns him and the truths of Jesus Christ. God Bless, Memaw
 
There have been times that what is being reported the pope says makes me uncomfortable. I pray about it and each time I hear “don’t worry but trust”. Always makes me feel better.

I usually try and find Catholic sources if I feel that something isn’t quite right. The media has always had an agenda and it is usually counter the Catholic Church so I guess I can’t expect much different now.

I think the pope speaks in a way that challenges people. It challenges me quite often and that isn’t a bad thing. It is challenging many Catholics as well as non-believers or people of other faiths. It has moved me from my lethargy to read the CCC or the Scriptures and in doing that come to find out that the pope is right on 👍

I also try and remind myself that he is a representative of the Catholic Church so I shouldn’t be surprised when he talks about kindness and loving people, all people and not espousing violence. But I also think the devil is well established in this world and seeks to twist words and meaning whenever possible to draw people away from God.

Whenever I get that uncomfortable feeling I just pray.

Just my 2 cents.
 
My take is that how faithful you are to Christ is directly proportional to how much the world hates you.

It’s already a given that the world hates the Catholic Church. That’s not going to change and we know why.

If a Pope, therefore, is the darling of the world (generally speaking; I don’t necessarily mean Francis or any particular Pope), he probably needs to examine his conscience.
 
MADMARTIGAN said:
Sorry in advance, not sure where to put this.

I am having a really hard time with the POPE. He is more outspoken than others that, at least I can remember. Can someone help me understand him. I just feel like when atheist, non believers, and morally corrupt people praise him and quote him there’s something not right. I also feel like he has more of a agenda than being a catholic. Maybe its me, Maybe I have lost my way? I just don’t feel like hes MY POPE. Sorry if I offend anybody, not my intention. Just looking for answers.
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I get what your saying, because I felt this way many times under St PJP II.

Here’s the bottom line: the language of Catholic faith–which is directly derivative of, and referential to, the language of Christ Himself (according to Scripture), IS quite disturbing when translated into the secular. It just is.

That’s because Christ WAS radical. He did not come to reconcile Sin to God, but to reject, refute, and combat Sin, in order to reconcile Man to God.

Sin is a turning away from God, and most often, a turning into oneself (egoism, selfishness–so much of Satan’s temptation is a matter of selling us on what feels good to us–e.g. lust, gluttony, greed/avarice… e.g.–relativism serves to rationalize our sinning, and materialism plays to our physical senses…).

I digress…

The point is that Christ’s teachings are directed at/to the individual. Applying Christ’s teachings to government, is folly in so much as government is itself, more corrupt than fallen man, individually. Too strong/much government, leaves man at the mercy of man.

…and Christ never championed any such thing (e.g."…give to Cesar what is Cesar’s…"; no pretense at all to instruct or teach Cesar or Pilate or such, how to govern).

Secular media takes the Pope’s words, and extrapolate from them, that he is speaking Christian charity, to governance. They do this, because it fits their agenda.

GK Chesterton wrote it best when he said:

“…the Christian ethic has not been tried and found wanting…it’s been found hard, and left untried.”

Point being: if we lived our faith to the letter, we’d all be like Mother Theresa.

That’s what the Pope’s words convey–because that’s what Christ taught.

But we also have a secular reality with which we have to (choose to) deal with–that requires that we compromise our faith.

Measure the Pope’s actual words against scripture and the Catechism; not by secular measures–and certainly don’t settle for mainstream/secular media’s characterization of the Pope’s words. They usually (more often than not) take liberties with them, take 'em out of context, and offer their own spin to them.

.
 
MADMARTIGAN said:
Sorry in advance, not sure where to put this.

I am having a really hard time with the POPE. He is more outspoken than others that, at least I can remember. Can someone help me understand him. I just feel like when atheist, non believers, and morally corrupt people praise him and quote him there’s something not right. I also feel like he has more of a agenda than being a catholic. Maybe its me, Maybe I have lost my way? I just don’t feel like hes MY POPE. Sorry if I offend anybody, not my intention. Just looking for answers.
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Was it the statement that he said everyone was redeemed including atheists that got you all excited? That happens to be very true. Jesus death redeemed EVERYONE. But Pope Francis definitely didn’t say everyone get saved. Non Christians may thought redemption and salvation mean the same thing, but it is not. So no champagne yet, for them.
 
MADMARTIGAN said:
Sorry in advance, not sure where to put this.

I am having a really hard time with the POPE. He is more outspoken than others that, at least I can remember. Can someone help me understand him. I just feel like when atheist, non believers, and morally corrupt people praise him and quote him there’s something not right. I also feel like he has more of a agenda than being a catholic. Maybe its me, Maybe I have lost my way? I just don’t feel like hes MY POPE. Sorry if I offend anybody, not my intention. Just looking for answers.
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I agree…I mentioned the term ‘shooting from the hip’ and was placed on double secret probation…my concerns are that by being outspoken about certain things, which no doubt are often taken out of context…one leaves one’s self in a bit of a ‘pickle’ with respect to having to have somone ‘run’ behind me to explain what was ‘really meant’…WE know…but the world DOESN"T …when Elton John…and every other homosexual club, journal…T.V. personality…praise what they perceive he has said…we have problems…we have problems enough…I respect the office of the Papacy…the majesterium…but I have to question when the clergy is openly kissing the Koran…which, although we are supposed to be ecumenical…we DO NOT worship the same God…the Koran refers to the Trinity as excrement…I work with Muslims…and when questioned the refer to us as…in the Book but not to be trusted…lets draw a line in the sand…
 
I think this Pope is exactly who the Church needs, at exactly the right time.
 
MADMARTIGAN said:
Sorry in advance, not sure where to put this.

I am having a really hard time with the POPE. He is more outspoken than others that, at least I can remember. Can someone help me understand him. I just feel like when atheist, non believers, and morally corrupt people praise him and quote him there’s something not right.
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Why do you give any credulity to the misinterpretations and outright twisting of the popes off-the-cuff remarks by the Lame Stream Media?
 
Ignatius said:
Jesus made his sacrifice on the cross to redeem every one. Not everyone decides to accept his gracious gift of Salvation.
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So if you accept the gift of salvation you are “saved” or “redeemed”?
 
7_Sorrows said:
So if you accept the gift of salvation you are “saved” or “redeemed”?
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Yes, but this acceptance is a daily thing in which we “take up our cross and follow” Christ. Jesus’ act of redemption makes it possible for us to be saved–to live in God’s grace through the sacraments and a life of prayer and Christian charity. 🙂
 
Della said:
Yes, but this acceptance is a daily thing in which we “take up our cross and follow” Christ. Jesus’ act of redemption makes it possible for us to be saved–to live in God’s grace through the sacraments and a life of prayer and Christian charity. 🙂
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Thanks. 🙂
 
7_Sorrows said:
So if you accept the gift of salvation you are “saved” or “redeemed”?
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Saved (although as Della stated, it’s not a completed–salvation must be preserved, and we must persevere in the Faith).

Christ redeemed Man (i.e.–in the aggregate–from damnation via Original Sin). That ‘redemption’, is a remedy to the overall damnation of Man, as the descendants of Adam and Eve. The insurmountable barrier created by Original Sin, which separated Man from God, was overcome by Christ. By analogy, Christ ‘cleared a path’ to God–we must therefore follow Christ, as He is ‘the Way’ (actually, the only Revealed ‘path’ to God). But that ‘barrier’ remains intact–the default rule if you will, is that Man remains separated from God upon birth–which is why we need baptism, to wash away the stain of Original Sin–and thereby open up the ‘path’ shown by Christ (which at the same time, IS Christ).

Salvation is the grace granted to us individually, through Christ, by our acceptance in Faith, of the Redemption afforded Man, through Christ (NB: ‘acceptance’ means so much more than merely declaring belief in Christ; it entails complete embrace of Christ; complete surrender of our free will, to ‘the Will of God’; complete renunciation of Sin (present/future, as well as confession and absolution of past, committed sins); ‘keeping the commandments’; and living Christ’s two fold commandment to love God with all our being, and to love our neighbors as ourselves, for the love of God–(which we refer to as “Charity”)).

Of course that’s just my humble, perhaps clumsy, understanding (and gross message board simplification–not intended to be authoritative, and no pretenses to such).

FWIW.
 
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