The Pope's big interview

[johnlal]

Hello,

The question (not just for you but for any reader) is: who ever talks about the rules all the time?

Who “insists only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods”?

Who is “obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently”?

When, and who was/is responsible for this: “The church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules.”?

In other words, who is the Pope talking about in these comments? Internet bloggers? Would he bother to address them? If so, why not say so. I have no idea who he is talking about and I doubt anyone here has any idea. So, perhaps these are rhetorical questions.

Dan

Vatican warns John Kerry not to take Holy Communion …
www.tldm.org/news6/vaticanwarnsjohnkerrynocommunion.htm‎

Bishop Would Deny Rite for Defiant Catholic Voters - NYTimes.com
www.nytimes.com/2004/05/14/national/14bishop.html‎

19 arrested at Notre Dame protest against Obama -
[www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCSu(name removed by moderator)vBXU‎](www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCSu(name removed by moderator)vBXU‎)

Notre Dame, Catholic institutions sue Obama over contraception …
thehill.com/.../228585-washington-archdiocese-sues-administration-over…

Biden, Pelosi Stir Controversy by Taking Communion - Ken Walsh’s …
www.usnews.com › News › Ken Walsh’s Washington‎

Need any more?

 

[Mike30]

My problem is as follows. Mercy is a wonderful thing and it is truly one of Gods greatest gifts. The murder of the unborn is a horrific sin that I, in my human state cannot condone or excuse. Sorry I just can’t do it. In this regard I don’t understand exactly what the Holy Father is trying to say. Is it that yes these are grave sins, but we should not judge them as such and focus solely on forgiveness and mercy after the fact? Somehow that doesn’t seem to be right at all. What it seems like to me is that he is saying that the Church needs to accomodate herself to the sensibilities and morality of modern man, and I cannot agree with that at all.

I hope that I am wrong, but that is what it seems like to me.

 

[clem456]

My problem is as follows. Mercy is a wonderful thing and it is truly one of Gods greatest gifts. **The murder of the unborn is a horrific sin that I, in my human state cannot condone or excuse. ** Sorry I just can’t do it. In this regard I don’t understand exactly what the Holy Father is trying to say. Is it that yes these are grave sins, but we should not judge them as such and focus solely on forgiveness and mercy after the fact? Somehow that doesn’t seem to be right at all. What it seems like to me is that he is saying that the Church needs to accomodate herself to the sensibilities and morality of modern man, and I cannot agree with that at all.

I hope that I am wrong, but that is what it seems like to me.

I don’t see where the Pope is even making a statement on the morality of abortion… He has said a couple of times that he is a son of the Church.
What he is making a statement on is, what the pastoral thrust of the Church ought to be. Do we approach people and minister to them by pointing out their sinfulness -first-?

 

[dans0622]

…

Need any more?

Hello,

A few of those links are not working. In any case, you go back almost 10 years for a statement by a bishop and that is supposed to be proof of his obsession or that he only talks about certain issues or that he is locked up in small-minded rules? A bishop, by the way, who just recently echoed the Pope’s words regarding “who am I to judge”? You could have just as easily put up a link to the Pope’s address to doctors, given today, as evidence that he himself is obsessed with abortion or euthanasia. Or, the statements of members of the Pontifical Council for the Family, made public today, as proof of “the Vatican” being similarly obsessed with issues related to the family.

press.catholica.va/news_services/bulletin/news/31708.php?index=31708&lang=en

press.catholica.va/news_services/bulletin/news/31704.php?index=31704&lang=en#INTERVENTO DELLA DOTT.SSA HELEN M. ALVARÉ

I don’t find your answer to be compelling.

Dan

 

[JustPink]

My problem is as follows. Mercy is a wonderful thing and it is truly one of Gods greatest gifts. The murder of the unborn is a horrific sin that I, in my human state cannot condone or excuse. Sorry I just can’t do it. In this regard I don’t understand exactly what the Holy Father is trying to say. Is it that yes these are grave sins, but we should not judge them as such and focus solely on forgiveness and mercy after the fact? Somehow that doesn’t seem to be right at all.** What it seems like to me is that he is saying that the Church needs to accomodate herself to the sensibilities and morality of modern man, and I cannot agree with that at all.**

I hope that I am wrong, but that is what it seems like to me.

Um I’m not sure why in the world you would think that’s what he’s saying.

 

[dans0622]

My problem is as follows. Mercy is a wonderful thing and it is truly one of Gods greatest gifts. The murder of the unborn is a horrific sin that I, in my human state cannot condone or excuse. Sorry I just can’t do it. In this regard I don’t understand exactly what the Holy Father is trying to say. Is it that yes these are grave sins, but we should not judge them as such and focus solely on forgiveness and mercy after the fact? Somehow that doesn’t seem to be right at all. What it seems like to me is that he is saying that the Church needs to accomodate herself to the sensibilities and morality of modern man, and I cannot agree with that at all.

I hope that I am wrong, but that is what it seems like to me.

Hello,

If I recall, those comments were made in the context of a confessor/confession. So, I suppose he is explaining how he thinks it is best to get people who have sinned (abortion, adultery, homosexual acts, etc.) into the confessional: is it by “only” telling them that they have sinned? Obviously not–more needs to be done. The fundamental message of the Gospel–the forgiveness of sins through the Paschal Mystery and made available through the ministry of the Church–is more likely to draw people to the confessional. That, I think, is what his point is.

Dan

 

[JustPink]

Hello,

A few of those links are not working. In any case, you go back almost 10 years for a statement by a bishop and that is supposed to be proof of his obsession or that he only talks about certain issues or that he is locked up in small-minded rules? A bishop, by the way, who just recently echoed the Pope’s words regarding “who am I to judge”? You could have just as easily put up a link to the Pope’s address to doctors, given today, as evidence that he himself is obsessed with abortion or euthanasia. Or, the statements of members of the Pontifical Council for the Family, made public today, as proof of “the Vatican” being similarly obsessed with issues related to the family.

press.catholica.va/news_services/bulletin/news/31708.php?index=31708&lang=en

press.catholica.va/news_services/bulletin/news/31704.php?index=31704&lang=en#INTERVENTO DELLA DOTT.SSA HELEN M. ALVARÉ

I don’t find your answer to be compelling.

Dan

Honestly, I’m not sure what it was that you were asking for or how it has anything to do with what I said.

 

[kozlosap]

Did I say that? No, I did not.

But they can ask leading questions. Interviewers do it all the time. And they can edit his responses and the overall interview in a way they see fit.

Much can be in an editing room done to spin an interview.

That magazine is a rag, not fit for the bottom of a bird cage

So you only want interviews conducted by exactly “who”? Our Blessed Holy Father is a Jesuit and the interview was conducted by another Jesuit. I don’t think that the author needed to add any spin or cut and paste away the Pope’s answers. Pope Francis served in the real world and feels a strong bond with the common man. He is more concerned with God’s mercy and preaching the Gospels than with maintaining the status quo of a Church perceived by many, including Catholics, of a non-inclusive institution.

 

[dans0622]

Honestly, I’m not sure what it was that you were asking for or how it has anything to do with what I said.

Hello,

You said “what I meant is, instead of talking about the rules all the time, he’s talking about the “mercy/person” aspect of it more.” So, I am asking: who talks about the rules all the time? Who do you think the Pope is trying to correct?

Thanks.

Dan

 

[coachkfan1]

I think from reading these posts and others on other websites that the Pope’s comments have caused a great deal of confusion among the faithful, something we did NOT need. God is not the author of confusion. We are caught up in some kind of guessing game about what he was “really” trying to say. Most of the laity probably do not read the Catechism and some may being interpreting his comments to fit their own beliefs.

 

[TerryOfromCA]

So you only want interviews conducted by exactly “who”?..

You keep trying to put words in my mouth but I won’t let you.

My initial post said this:

I view anything that America magazine prints with skepticism.
I would have felt better if he had interviewed with Raymond Arroyo

That is my preference. I “prefer” to read or hear interviews done by faithful Catholics, not faux Catholics.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Over at a near-anything-goes religion forum I frequent, an atheist poster gave a link to The Huffington Post’s summation article about the interview.

While the atheist poster crowed over Pope Francis’ saying the Catholic Church should make “less of a big deal over gay marraige, abortion and contraception” I noticed the article itself was a fluff piece heavy on supposed summation but way short on direct quotes. One thing did break through the Post’s obfuscation was that Pope Francis said the Catholic Church’s teaching of the above mentioned issues is “clear”.

So, they are STILL (and always will be) grave sins. All Francis seems to be doing is asking for a different emphasis for the time being.

 

[agnes_therese]

What it seems like to me is that he is saying that the Church needs to accomodate herself to the sensibilities and morality of modern man, and I cannot agree with that at all.

I read almost everything he says, and I haven’t seen that at all. Could you point out exactly where he says that? Was it in this interview or another? That would contradict his very clear statement that the teaching of the Church has not changed.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Need any more?

The other poster asked who the Pope had in mind and your provided this list. Do you have the quotes or video of where the Pope identified any of those persons?

 

[janeway529]

My problem is as follows. Mercy is a wonderful thing and it is truly one of Gods greatest gifts. The murder of the unborn is a horrific sin that I, in my human state cannot condone or excuse. Sorry I just can’t do it. In this regard I don’t understand exactly what the Holy Father is trying to say. Is it that yes these are grave sins, but we should not judge them as such and focus solely on forgiveness and mercy after the fact? Somehow that doesn’t seem to be right at all. What it seems like to me is that he is saying that the Church needs to accomodate herself to the sensibilities and morality of modern man, and I cannot agree with that at all.

I hope that I am wrong, but that is what it seems like to me.

Since you mentioned abortion, I’ll try to explain it this way. Suppose you had a teenage daughter and she becomes pregnant. As a parent, how would you approach the situation?
I would hope that instead of condemning your daughter for premarital sex (by calling her a slut, etc.), you would tell her how much you loved her and encourage her to keep the baby. By not focusing on the negative (the fact that she sinned), but on the positive (that new life inside of her is a precious gift), said daughter is more likely not to go through a secret abortion out of fear and pressure.

Pope Francis is leading sinners to the door of mercy that the sinners themselves have dismissed about being either unworthy or too proud to approach. Pope Francis is laying the foundation for their eventual return, should they freely choose to do so with the help of God’s grace.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I think from reading these posts and others on other websites that the Pope’s comments have caused a great deal of confusion among the faithful, something we did NOT need. God is not the author of confusion. We are caught up in some kind of guessing game about what he was “really” trying to say. Most of the laity probably do not read the Catechism and some may being interpreting his comments to fit their own beliefs.

I agree, there is now confusion. The question is, how much of that is due to what the Pope said, and how much is due to people conjecturing about what the Pope means when he says the Church should be more balanced, or how much is due to obtusely false media summaries. I also think, whether or not the Pope meant for this or not, that this is an opportunity for Catholics who know their faith to articulate Church teaching to those who never gave a second listen previously. The Pope did explicitly reference the Catechism, and I like this quote from the interview:*During the return flight from Rio de Janeiro I said that if a homosexual person is of good will and is in search of God, I am no one to judge. By saying this, I said what the catechism says. Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person.*This is an opportunity to me, to engage those who are suddenly going bonkers for the Pope, to ask them if they embrace the teaching of the Catechism as he does, and for me to cite it. Because, frankly, the totality of the Catechism teaches the message of love the Pope seems to be going for.

That was not his only reference to the Catechism. The whole episode about atheists and conscience was almost verbatim right out of CCC#847.

Then today he quite staunchly opposed abortion in definitive terms, even though the media will not grab that quote and shout, “Pope strikes back at pro-choicers who were happy with his comments 2 days ago!” You don’t see this. And that does add to the confusion about which you speak, because those people thought he meant “never mind talking about abortion,” which he obviously did not.

I think more time might be worth waiting for to see if this personality the Pope exhibits is him “eating with tax collectors and sinners,” or if it’s something else.

 

[clem456]

There is confusion. The Pope is not the author of confusion.
Two problems: we have instant access to communication, some of which has bias and some of which is plain deceitful. We are all free to take that information and dissect it and comment on it, even those of us (me) who are not qualified to dissect it and comment on it.

We also have so much information that the real story gets lost. The actual words he said are out there for the reading. The actual statements, if you read them whole, give absolutely no reason for concern. The Pope is a pastor, why should he not direct the pastoral work of the Church?

 

[OraLabora]

You keep trying to put words in my mouth but I won’t let you.

My initial post said this:

I view anything that America magazine prints with skepticism.
I would have felt better if he had interviewed with Raymond Arroyo

That is my preference. I “prefer” to read or hear interviews done by faithful Catholics, not faux Catholics.

We need to clear up an important point here. America Magazine did not conduct the interview. They printed the full text of an interview that the Pope gave to Antonio Spadaro, S.J., editor in chief of La Civiltà Cattolica, the Italian Jesuit journal.

The article is an accurate reporting of that interview, at least as far as is possible as it was translated from Italian.

 

[JustPink]

Hello,

You said “what I meant is, instead of talking about the rules all the time, he’s talking about the “mercy/person” aspect of it more.” So, I am asking: who talks about the rules all the time? Who do you think the Pope is trying to correct?

Thanks.

Dan

I don’t think he’s necessarily trying to “correct” any person specifically, or even “correct” anything at all. I never said anything like that, all I said was that instead of talking so much about the rules all the time, he’s focusing more on another big aspect of our faith - mercy and love. That’s just his bigger focus right now.

I’m not sure what it is about that that is so hard to understand.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

We need to clear up an important point here. America Magazine did not conduct the interview. They printed the full text of an interview that the Pope gave to Antonio Spadaro, S.J., editor in chief of La Civiltà Cattolica, the Italian Jesuit journal.

The article is an accurate reporting of that interview, at least as far as is possible as it was translated from Italian.

Thank you for beating me to it OraLabora!!
Some of the posts in this thread make me believe that some of the people who have problems with this interview haven’t even read it! If they had, your post would not be necessary!