Arguing (or debating) about what the best music (or insert other subjective content here) is, is like arguing about what the best color is.
Yes and no. Of course, in subjective terms you really can’t debate most art forms. It is a matter of taste. In technical terms, though, it can be debated. For instance, a jazz or classically trained musician can usually play rock music fairly easily, while a rock musician, who never had much in music lessons, wouldn’t be able to play Barrios Mangore’s original guitar compositions or his guitar transcriptions of other composers. To subjectively say that their works are “better” than a rock song, is just that - a subjective opinion. And people can debate till they’re blue in the face about why it is better, but they will have a hard time in convincing the other side. People can’t help what they like. I love the band, U2. Although I know that Bono really doesn’t have a good voice and is pretty much horrible when I hold him up against someone like my favorite tenor, Placido Domingo, and although I know that their music writing isn’t genius or even remotely close to what Beethoven composed, I can’t help but really like the band and like Bono. That’s me with my subjective idea. But in terms of debating the technical aspects of a piece, it is possible especially if people on both sides know enough theory and performing techniques of western music (which rock and western art music is).
And that’s the thing - the Popes are much like us when it comes to subjective and objective terms of music.
and of course one of the best things in this thread is that Beethoven basically was the rock music of his time…
Well, no. During his day, the folk songs, pub songs and other popular melodies you’d hear in the streets, were actually the “rock” songs of the day. Even in that time, they were considered “common art” music. Beethoven’s music during his life was still considered high art music and some people even at that time and before, as there is today, had a “reverse snobbery” towards it. Benjamin Franklin, for instance. Although he wasn’t around during Beethoven’s jewel years, when Franklin was in London and Paris and was able to hear the beloved high art music of the day with Handel, Gluck, etc. (all of the same genre as Beethoven, just at an earlier time), he was totally turned off to it. Thought it was a high-falut’n type of music and was proud to be considered a “philistine” as some people thought of him. But the man had enough charisma to allow everyone to overlook his “philistine” tendencies.
That all said, in terms of celebrity status, Beethoven certainly did have something equal to the celebrity status of a beloved rock star. And I’d say Liszt even more so was a true “celebrity” in that regard. Overdramatic, big, sexually attractive to the ladies, a humanitarian of his day, women were his major “vice”. He was so religious, but just had a hard time keeping it in his pants. But still, his music would have still been considered the high art music of his time and not the “popular” music. Actually these composers would many times take a pop/folk melody and then incorporate into their classical compositions.
I do love Beethoven’s music though, I appreciate it all but find myself listening to more Chopin and Scriabin than anyone else. Although these phases of intense interest in just a couple composers often rotates through my whole collection. Sometimes it’s intense Liszt focused, next thing I am all about Vivaldi or Bach.
That isn’t unusual. My husband and I own an enormous collection of classical, opera, early music, rock music, celtic, you name it. We rotate all the time. Liszt is one of my husband’s favorites as well. We have a portrait of his hanging on the wall watching over our piano, he likes him so much. hahaha!
When I try to play the only piece I ever learned of his, “Consolation No. 3” I imagine him looking down at me and telling me that I’m such an embarrassment. I do this laughing because I know how horrible of a pianist I am. But I do sing his art songs pretty well.
So, hopefully, he’s smiling from the painting when I practice them. hee! hee!
Whenever I’m passionate about anything, I always overdo it with imparting too much info and possibly jam too much information into my friends’/family’s heads.