The pope's power

[GaryTaylor]

Again it sounds like, you don’t think it’s God’s will that we ask Him for impossible things (miracles)

I think its more important we conform ourselves to Gods will, which is communion with mankind thus eternal salvation. Its “thy will be done”, not my will.

and that’s why it doesn’t happen,

But it does happen as I mentioned with “two” recent Popes being canonized-Saints.

which is completely wrong. It’s our lack of faith in God’s ability to do the impossible, that’s the problem. God is willing to do miracles !

What impossible are we speaking of? Your comparing “Gods ability to do the impossible” to a “lack of faith” by an individual. So we need to determine what the impossible is you expect to occur, to even venture to an individuals lack of faith. What do you suggest, the comparison with St Peter and the Popes doesn’t stand to reason for the reasons mentioned…

I say the “two” recent Popes being canonized-Saints does convey miracles in accord Gods ability to do the impossible.

 

[PNEUMA]

… And can you explain this newer theology for us? Thanks a bunch.

Glenda

“this newer theology” is very old, Glenda

“And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him.” Mark 11:22 RSVCE

it will be done for him, by God ! its not his faith that moves the mountain, its God !

 

[NightCrawler27]

ok, why doesn’t the 21st century christians, do what the 1st century christians did ?

Here I intend to provide evidence supporting the argument that modern day holy people/ordained persons have and do perform these acts.

Case 1: Not the Pope or a priest, I personally believe this was a modern day miracle performed by God via his servant Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta. While she was alive, the following happened as a result of her direct actions: In 1982, at the height of the Siege of Beirut, Mother Teresa rescued 37 children trapped in a front line hospital by brokering a temporary cease-fire between the Israeli army and Palestinian guerrillas. Accompanied by Red Cross workers, she traveled through the war zone to the devastated hospital to evacuate the young patients. (Source: Wikipedia)

Case 2: I think this thread is missing something at least in part related to the miracles of Jesus and the apostles in the Bible: That at least some of the afflictions people had were due to possession, and healing of afflictions were actually the result of exorcism. It’s no secret that people who have demons within them suffer greatly in a physical sense, and that suffering ends when, by the power of God via the priest/bishop, the evil presence is removed. This happens and has been documented throughout the history of the Church.

Case 3: You want to see the Pope cast out demons? Ask, and ye shall receive:

youtube.com/watch?v=rNmerd1IDmw

As a followup to this event, the man claims publicly he still has some demons within him but now is no longer bound to his wheelchair.

 

[GaryTaylor]

“this newer theology” is very old, Glenda

“And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him.” Mark 11:22 RSVCE

it will be done for him, by God ! its not his faith that moves the mountain, its God !

Its a metaphor to which we have no recourse to determine the depth of an individuals faith which coincides with Gods will, who can do the impossible, such as with the comparison, the metaphor.

Is it logical to suggest no mountains have been moved so there is no faith in God? Of course not.

 

[PNEUMA]

Here I intend to provide evidence supporting the argument that modern day holy people/ordained persons have and do perform these acts.

Case 1: Not the Pope or a priest, I personally believe this was a modern day miracle performed by God via his servant Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta. While she was alive, the following happened as a result of her direct actions: In 1982, at the height of the Siege of Beirut, Mother Teresa rescued 37 children trapped in a front line hospital by brokering a temporary cease-fire between the Israeli army and Palestinian guerrillas. Accompanied by Red Cross workers, she traveled through the war zone to the devastated hospital to evacuate the young patients. (Source: Wikipedia)

Case 2: I think this thread is missing something at least in part related to the miracles of Jesus and the apostles in the Bible: That at least some of the afflictions people had were due to possession, and healing of afflictions were actually the result of exorcism. It’s no secret that people who have demons within them suffer greatly in a physical sense, and that suffering ends when, by the power of God via the priest/bishop, the evil presence is removed. This happens and has been documented throughout the history of the Church.

Case 3: You want to see the Pope cast out demons? Ask, and ye shall receive:

youtube.com/watch?v=rNmerd1IDmw

As a followup to this event, the man claims publicly he still has some demons within him but now is no longer bound to his wheelchair.

I have seen this, and this is in line with what Jesus said they should do, but He said they should do much more than this, and I think it is their lack in faith that’s preventing them to do so.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I think it is their lack in faith that’s preventing them to do so.

How do you know its not mankind as I suggested refusing to obey the Pope and come into “communion” with the Church which is one with Christ? “Communion” is the supernatural will of God re-established at Calvary. Man is still refusing to cooperate.

 

[GaryTaylor]

“this newer theology” is very old, Glenda

Oh, couple quick questions, this newer theology, who there moved a mountain or performed any miracles to compare to St Peter to confirm their faith?

 

[Dorothy]

Its a metaphor to which we have no recourse to determine the depth of an individuals faith which coincides with Gods will, who can do the impossible, such as with the comparison, the metaphor.

Is it logical to suggest no mountains have been moved so there is no faith in God? Of course not.

It seems to me that the “mountains” are the mountains in our mind that we do not want to leg go of.

I need to allow God to remove those mountains and replace them with His holiness.

Some are mountains of resentment, jealousy, unforgiveness, stubbornness, etc.

 

[ezeekl]

Yes, they use the power in spiritual healing, why not use it in physical healing and other things, that the world need ?

Because this is not a “power” that is inherent to someone. No one possesses the power to perform miracles except God. God may use a person to effect a miracle as was done through Peter. But one does not decide to do a miracle here or another there. In the first century with a fledgling church those miracles were done, not as a sign or show of power but rather, as a meams of evangelization. Do we today need signs or miracles in order to evangelize? You seem to want miracles performed as a sign to justify your faith but even Jesus did not perform miracles when requested to do so as a sign of His power.

 

[NightCrawler27]

I have seen this, and this is in line with what Jesus said they should do, but He said they should do much more than this, and I think it is their lack in faith that’s preventing them to do so.

I do not believe this is true for a second. First, many very holy people secretly have gone through a crisis of faith, where they felt complete emptiness instead of the love of God or Christ in their lives. And here specifically I refer again to Mother Teresa, who’s crisis of faith is well known and she is one miracle away from sainthood.

Second, just because you do not know or see these events happening does not equate to their absence. Many things happen every day that do (and should) remain private to the people involved.

Curious, you want to call out a supposed lack of faith on the part of our clergy because of something you do not see. When Thomas did not believe in the miracle of the resurrection until he actually saw the Lord with his own eyes and felt his wounds with his own hands, Jesus told him: “blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed”. Do you not believe that today’s apostles perform the great works you seek, regardless of the ability to see or experience them first hand? Why not?

 

[glendab]

Hello Pneuma.

“this newer theology” is very old, Glenda

“And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him.” Mark 11:22 RSVCE

it will be done for him, by God ! its not his faith that moves the mountain, its God !

You are contradicting what you said before: Our Pope’s not capable of working any miracles like Peter’s because of a lack of faith. Then you say it isn’t faith that works miracles it is God.

I was asking about your premise that God, the Father who you call Yahweh was the one who did the miracle cited of calming the storm. You stated that it was their (meaning both Peter and Jesus) Father who did the calming of the storm at sea. Then you “corrected” me by calling that Father Yahweh and not jehova. I wanted to know how you understand Yahweh’s role in the miracle cited and drew a conclusion that you believe in Yahweh because you called God the Father by that name. Logical conclusion. So what’s up with that?

Glenda

 

[PNEUMA]

“this newer theology” is very old, Glenda

"And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God

. Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him." Mark 11:22 RSVCE

it will be done for him, by God ! its not his faith that moves the mountain, its God !
Its a metaphor to which we have no recourse to determine the depth of an individuals faith which coincides with Gods will, who can do the impossible, such as with the comparison, the metaphor.

Is it logical to suggest no mountains have been moved so there is no faith in God? Of course not.

No, this is no metaphor, he said this right after fig tree incident

"In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he was hungry. And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once. When the disciples saw it they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither at once?” And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and never doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will be done. And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

another time he said,

“If you had faith as a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this sycamine tree, ‘Be rooted up, and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you".

So, whether tree or mountain it can be moved into the sea, you have the same rules as for the fig tree.

But there is to little faith in God, yes.

 

[PNEUMA]

Hello Pneuma.
…I was asking about your premise that God, the Father who you call Yahweh…

I do not call the Father, Yahweh. I just corected what you said

 

[PNEUMA]

“this newer theology” is very old, Glenda

"And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God

. Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him." Mark 11:22 RSVCE

it will be done for him, by God ! its not his faith that moves the mountain, its God !
Hello Pneuma.

You are contradicting what you said before: Our Pope’s not capable of working any miracles like Peter’s because of a lack of faith. Then you say it isn’t faith that works miracles it is God.

lack of faith in God’s ability, Glenda ! they don’t believe God can do it, that’s why it’s not happening, don’t you see the difference ? or do you still think that if you just had enough faith, you coud move the mountain with your faith (mental power) ?

 

[GaryTaylor]

But there is to little faith in God, yes.

You failed to answer the question and cast off to the left instead. Typical and predictable. You demand answers but have none.

Who moved the mountain in your faith recently? You must have something, or you have nothing but a self evident “double standard”.



And btw the point still stands also…“Is it logical to suggest no mountains have been moved so there is no faith in God? Of course not”

You need verifiable evidence of the mountain being moved or we have reached a double standard YES or NO?

Listen, if we are not agreeing on obvious points then lets get real honest and face the facts…THERE CAN BE NO PROGRESS!!!

HONESTY is a very important Christian concept.

Let me know when we are in agreement here.

 

[glendab]

Hello Phema.

I do not call the Father, Yahweh. I just corected what you said

I’m afraid I’m still confused. I asked who you meant and YOU said there was a Father God who worked the miracle, not Jesus or Peter and then I asked if you meant Jehovah, like some others mean and you “corrected” me by saying his name isn’t Jehovah but Yahweh so, logical conclusion is if you “correct” me to Yahweh, then that is who you believe actually worked the miracle through Jesus in the calming of the sea. You wouldn’t be alone in believing in Yahweh so perhaps you could explain. I already know I am incorrect in calling God the Father Jehovah, but that was just an example so you could see the dichotomy of your statement about God being the one working the miracle of the calming of the sea. Why is the name Yahweh YOUR correction of me? I’m afraid I don’t understand where you’re coming from on this particular point. Can you explain it further?

Thanks.

Glenda

 

[PNEUMA]

Hello Phema.

I’m afraid I’m still confused. I asked who you meant and YOU said there was a Father God who worked the miracle, not Jesus or Peter and then I asked if you meant Jehovah, like some others mean and you “corrected” me by saying his name isn’t Jehovah but Yahweh so, logical conclusion is if you “correct” me to Yahweh, then that is who you believe actually worked the miracle through Jesus in the calming of the sea. You wouldn’t be alone in believing in Yahweh so perhaps you could explain. I already know I am incorrect in calling God the Father Jehovah, but that was just an example so you could see the dichotomy of your statement about God being the one working the miracle of the calming of the sea. Why is the name Yahweh YOUR correction of me? I’m afraid I don’t understand where you’re coming from on this particular point. Can you explain it further?

Thanks.

Glenda

Old testament names of God are of no interest in this topic, Glenda it’s just something you brought up when I spoke of the Father. And yes it was the Father who raised Jesus Christ from the dead and held Jesus and Peter on the water. Jesus Christ was absolutely 100% certain, that the Father would raise him from the dead, that’s why He let the jews and romans crucify Him. Faith in the Father is crucial for miracles to happen.

 

[PNEUMA]

PNEUMA;11907487:

No, this is no metaphor, he said this right after fig tree incident

"In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he was hungry. And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once. When the disciples saw it they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither at once?” And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and never doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will be done. And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith

.”

another time he said,

“If you had faith as a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this sycamine tree, ‘Be rooted up, and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you".

So, whether tree or mountain it can be moved into the sea, you have the same rules as for the fig tree.

But there is to little faith in God, yes.
…Who moved the mountain in your faith recently?..

No one, due to lack of faith.

“And he did not do many deeds of power there, because of their unbelief”

Is this what you find difficult to believe ? That God needs you to believe in Him, to help you ?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Is this what you find difficult to believe

I’m sorry but I’m still on the double standard. I’m having no issues with faith, and, I don’t believe the Pope is either. In fact I’m so confident in his faith, I’d walk to the end of the world with him today, and in fact I am. And praying along the journey through the vine-yard he has long life. If ya really want to know.

Perhaps that is your moved mountain, the Pope has inspired millions by Gods will and everyone’s prayers. Such a beautiful thing.

 

[ezeekl]

Yes, they use the power in spiritual healing, why not use it in physical healing and other things, that the world need ?

Who said the world needs physical healing or those other things you want? Is it you or God who decides what the world needs? If it is God then you have nothing to quibble about. If it is you, then where is it? Seems to me you want God in your wallet so you can pull Him out anytime you want or whenever you think there is a need. But God is no credit card that you can pay off by faith. God will decide when and if there is need for a miracle.