The Pope's words on Islam

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“Show me just what Muhammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”

This was a quote used by Pope Benedict, you can read it all at www.zenit.org. It goes on to chastize Islam for it’s preoccupation with using violence, threats, and death to convert others. The Pope is not stupid. He knew what he was saying and how it would be received. He said it anyway. The Holy Father is a man of truth and courage. Viva il Papa!
 
I believe the last Pope had the right all the right intentions in his heart when he tried playing “nice” with these people. But I’m glad the current guy in office finally sees the writing on the wall. Muslims CANNOT be reasoned with.
 
I watched a bit of a 9/11 special on the tele (tv) the other day, and one of the terrorists on the show said something like:

“we must kill the two satans! The pope, and America!”

I felt flattered…
 
Attitudes like these towards Muslims have helped convince me to leave Catholicism.

I’m sad when I read these threads. A quote from a medieval Byzantine Emperor about his rivals for power is being used to describe Islam again…it’s as if we’ve learned nothing from a violent, intolerant history.

Thank you, Cestusdei, for being one of many who has helped me to see that Catholicism is not the path to truth that I need to follow.
 
pro_universal said:
Attitudes like these towards Muslims have helped convince me to leave Catholicism.

I’m sad when I read these threads. A quote from a medieval Byzantine Emperor about his rivals for power is being used to describe Islam again…it’s as if we’ve learned nothing from a violent, intolerant history.

Thank you, Cestusdei, for being one of many who has helped me to see that Catholicism is not the path to truth that I need to follow.
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Please read the story in its entirety.
 
pro_universal said:
Attitudes like these towards Muslims have helped convince me to leave Catholicism.
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If you hadn’t proven yourself long ago to be a Muslim posting under the guise of a cafeteria catholic, this may actually be news to some people.
 
exoflare said:
If you hadn’t proven yourself long ago to be a Muslim posting under the guise of a cafeteria catholic, this may actually be news to some people.
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What? I’m not a Muslim now. Never was.

But certainly, encountering "you must be a secret Muslim!’ from Christians everywhere I go has not helped me to “see the truth” about how Christianity promotes rational thought and opposes illogical bias.

Quatsch, I read the whole speech on the Vatican website.
 
pro_universal said:
Attitudes like these towards Muslims have helped convince me to leave Catholicism.

I’m sad when I read these threads. A quote from a medieval Byzantine Emperor about his rivals for power is being used to describe Islam again…it’s as if we’ve learned nothing from a violent, intolerant history.

Thank you, Cestusdei, for being one of many who has helped me to see that Catholicism is not the path to truth that I need to follow.
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Would you care to refute the pope’s statement, since you seem to feel so strongly on the matter?
 
pro_universal said:
What? I’m not a Muslim now. Never was.

But certainly, encountering "you must be a secret Muslim!’ from Christians everywhere I go has not helped me to “see the truth” about how Christianity promotes rational thought and opposes illogical bias.

Quatsch, I read the whole speech on the Vatican website.
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Does defending a cult that teaches that apostates must be executed, husbands can beat their wives, endorses polygamy, and calls for the goal of a worldwide subjugation of the infidels sound any more “rational” to you??
 
Iranaeus,

First, it wasn’t the Pope’s statement…he was quoting another work, in the context of a talk about faith and reason. He didn’t even endorse the quote; but neither did he disown it.

As for the quote itself (not the Pope’s words), the historical examples are numerous. Wherever Muslims went, there are still millions of people of other faiths. There are millions of Christians in the Muslim middle east, and a billion hindus in what used to Muslim territory.

They did not practice forced conversion as a rule. This is opposed to Christian conquests, where whenever the power to do so was present, conversions were definitely forced. Just look at how many non-Christians are left from ancient times in Europe and North America to see that.
 
exoflare said:
Does defending a cult that teaches that apostates must be executed, husbands can beat their wives, endorses polygamy, and calls for the goal of a worldwide subjugation of the infidels sound any more “rational” to you??
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No. But defending Islam against charges that the above are true is definitely reasonable, because if you learn what Muslims have to say, it’s clear that those claims are false.

The complete and total lack of a desire to seek the truth on this issue, and the tones of racial intolerance that come with it in many parts, have been instrumental in leading me away from Catholicism.

Maybe they don’t take you that way, but it’s the truth that Islam is not a bad religion regardless of your relationship to the Church.
 
pro_universal said:
As for the quote itself (not the Pope’s words), the historical examples are numerous. Wherever Muslims went, there are still millions of people of other faiths. There are millions of Christians in the Muslim middle east, and a billion hindus in what used to Muslim territory.
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Yeah. Other faiths are allowed… but they’ve gotta pay. :rolleyes:

Not all the so-called “Muslim nations” actually practice 100% sharia law, of course, but there is no denying that this is what their religion teaches! You want to evaluate the religion and not it’s followers, right?
 
exoflare said:
Yeah. Other faiths are allowed… but they’ve gotta pay. :rolleyes:

Not all the so-called “Muslim nations” actually practice 100% sharia law, of course, but there is no denying that this is what their religion teaches! You want to evaluate the religion and not it’s followers, right?
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There is no problem with evaluating both.

All those nations have ancient communities of other religions that predate the rule of Muslims. If Islam commanded forced conversion, why weren’t all of these people forced to be Muslims over the thousand years or so of Muslim rule?

Answer: because the religion does not command conversion.

Funny, you seem to acknowledge this by referring to the tax…but then go on to talk about how the religion commands forced conversion?

Anyway, no, the tax wasn’t charged for most of the people who fell under Muslim rule in the world, and it’s certainly a much better practice than the Christian standard of the past, which was: “My kind of Christianity or die”
 
pro_universal said:
No. But defending Islam against charges that the above are true is definitely reasonable, because if you learn what Muslims have to say, it’s clear that those claims are false.

The complete and total lack of a desire to seek the truth on this issue, and the tones of racial intolerance that come with it in many parts, have been instrumental in leading me away from Catholicism.

Maybe they don’t take you that way, but it’s the truth that Islam is not a bad religion regardless of your relationship to the Church.
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Yeah right. Have you read the actual Quran, Hadiths, and Sirat Rasul themselves rather than the canned taqiyya of some silver-tongued imam? The proof is in the pudding, as they say.
 
pro_universal said:
Funny, you seem to acknowledge this by referring to the tax…but then go on to talk about how the religion commands forced conversion?
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Where? Point it out to me or admit to putting words in my mouth.

Anyway I can’t believe you’re actually defending this stuff.
 
exoflare said:
Yeah right. Have you read the actual Quran, Hadiths, and Sirat Rasul themselves rather than the canned taqiyya of some silver-tongued imam? The proof is in the pudding, as they say.
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Some of the material, but certainly not all. I’m currently reading some commentaries to the Quran alongside the Quran itself. I actually like what I see. It’s similar to Christianity, but clearer about rules for living and the theology.

Using the word “taqiyya” identifies you as someone who gets most of his information from Jihadwatch type sources, though.
 
exoflare said:
Where?

Anyway I can’t believe you’re actually defending this stuff.
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What is it I’m supposed to be defending here?

I’m not defending forced conversion. I’m saying that Muslims don’t believe in forced conversion.
 
pro_universal said:
What is it I’m supposed to be defending here?

I’m not defending forced conversion. I’m saying that Muslims don’t believe in forced conversion.
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You said I claimed that Muslims teach forced conversion. Where did I say this?
 
I was rather referring to the part of the statment:

“Show me just what Muhammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman,”
 
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