The Pope's words on Islam

[readsalot]

I find that Isalm is to Judaism
What Mormanism is the Christianity.

There are some interesting similarities. Both Islam and Mormanism invented their own text. Both have their foundings in a mysterious, unverifiable prophet, and both believe that their salvation is within their will.

Both leaders were sexual deviants, and both used God as the excuse that it was OK

 

[readsalot]

Tehran, Iran, Aug. 02 – Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei blasted United States policy in the Middle East and warned of an impending Muslim “jihad”, or holy war, against the West.

This is the religious leader of Iran. You know, the peace lover. I hope anybody out there that falls for the glossing over of Pro’s stuff remembers this before they get the nuke. Oh, wait, the Religion of Peace would never condone violence…

 

[readsalot]

Check out “Ask the Imam” (Google, first hit).

I typed in democracy. Here is the rule:

What is the islamic understanding about democracy, Is there any place for it in islam.

Answer 15522 2005-09-08

The common form of democracy prevalent at the moment is representative democracy, in which the citizens do not exercise their right of legislating and issuing political decrees in person, but rather through representatives chosen by them. The constitution of a democratic country will be largely influenced by the needs and wants of its people. Thus, if its people want casinos, bars, gay marriages, prostitution, etc. then with sufficient public pressure, all these vices can be accommodated for. **From this, it becomes simple to understand that there can never be scope for a democratic rule from the Islamic point of view. **
and Allah Ta’ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

 

[Riley259]

Attitudes like these towards Muslims have helped convince me to leave Catholicism.

I’m sad when I read these threads. A quote from a medieval Byzantine Emperor about his rivals for power is being used to describe Islam again…it’s as if we’ve learned nothing from a violent, intolerant history.

Thank you, Cestusdei, for being one of many who has helped me to see that Catholicism is not the path to truth that I need to follow.

Read the entire lecture before you jump to such dramatic conclusions (i.e., leaving the faith). I thought that the Pope’s discourse on this subject was brilliant and insightful. This lecture is a classic example of this man’s towering intellect. This lecture is an attempt to dialogue with other cultures and faith about the very important subject of faith and reason. These two must go together if the truth is to be reached. The Pope uses the controversial passage to point out that God Himself (the Logos), despite being eternal and infinitely more intelligent than His creatures, provides us through His Word an analogy of His very nature - that is, this God is not a capricious God who’s Will is fickle (as implied in Islam with descriptions of the attributes of Allah), but a God of rationality. Because this is a God of reason and rationality (which analogously humans are capable of using), He would not condone or approve of bald-faced violence as a tactic to convert souls. In essense, this is the point that the Pope is so eloquently trying to make and it makes me angry that the representatives of Islam and the media are taking these passages out of their intended context to make the Pope sound like some intolerant, bigoted mouthpiece for the Catholic church. Please investigate the whole story before jumping to such extreme judgements!! Islam is unique among religions in the sense that even an attempt at dialogue about an extremely important and relevant issue (violence in the name of religion) will trigger a further violent and mindless outrage across the mass of believers. This situation is completely nuts and frankly only further reinforces Islam’s reputation as a dangerous and irrational faith.

 

[readsalot]

Well said, Riley

 

[brotherhrolf]

Read the entire lecture before you jump to such dramatic conclusions (i.e., leaving the faith). I thought that the Pope’s discourse on this subject was brilliant and insightful. This lecture is a classic example of this man’s towering intellect. This lecture is an attempt to dialogue with other cultures and faith about the very important subject of faith and reason. These two must go together if the truth is to be reached. The Pope uses the controversial passage to point out that God Himself (the Logos), despite being eternal and infinitely more intelligent than His creatures, provides us through His Word an analogy of His very nature - that is, this God is not a capricious God who’s Will is fickle (as implied in Islam with descriptions of the attributes of Allah), but a God of rationality. Because this is a God of reason and rationality (which analogously humans are capable of using), He would not condone or approve of bald-faced violence as a tactic to convert souls. In essense, this is the point that the Pope is so eloquently trying to make and it makes me angry that the representatives of Islam and the media are taking these passages out of their intended context to make the Pope sound like some intolerant, bigoted mouthpiece for the Catholic church. Please investigate the whole story before jumping to such extreme judgements!! Islam is unique among religions in the sense that even an attempt at dialogue about an extremely important and relevant issue (violence in the name of religion) will trigger a further violent and mindless outrage across the mass of believers. This situation is completely nuts and frankly only further reinforces Islam’s reputation as a dangerous and irrational faith.

A breath of fresh air, indeed! Yo, ho, ho, my friend pro! Still flying that false flag, I see. When will you get tired of the charade?

 

[SPH1]

I hope that the Pope doesn’t cave and formally apologize. JPII’s kissing of the Koran was more than enough. The Muslim violent reaction once again shows that they are lunatics and bullies who cannot function in a free world.

 

[inJESUS]

**Attitudes **

like these towards Muslims have helped convince me to leave Catholicism. interesting… What about Jesus’ attitude to the Pharisee? did it convince you as well to leave Christianity?

Thank you, Cestusdei, for being one of many who has helped me to see that Catholicism is not the path to truth that I need to follow.

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!
Riley257:

Read the entire lecture…

I just did (zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=94748).
Riley257:

This lecture is a classic example of this man’s towering intellect.

Correct.

In his scholarly discourse, the Pope merely cited Manuel Palaeologus’s views; he did not say that he endorsed those views or that they were also his own. I don’t see how anyone who reads the Pomtiff’s entire speech and sees the context in which he cited the Emperor, could possibly be offended. German Chancellor Merkel was quite right when she said that, “Whoever criticizes the pope misunderstood the aim of his speech.” But, of course, folks who believe that, “Allah used Muslim scientists to expose the Western plot of using polio vaccines to reduce our population,” (news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060913/ap_on_he_me/vaccine_rumors_1) and/or who set fire to churches and YMCA centers (jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1157913638028&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull & ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3302162,00.html) will believe, and take offense at, just about anything.

Be well!

ssv

 

[inJESUS]

Wherever Muslims went, there are still millions of people of other faiths. There are millions of Christians in the Muslim middle east, and a billion hindus in what used to Muslim territory.

politics…if one does not make something, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to.

Muslims’ goal is to islamize all countries…if they don’t do it on the spot is that because they know they can’t…so they work under the table…breeding in every country they go, establishing schools ecc, enter in politics, ask for “Christian” symbols to be eliminated for not “hurting” the “minority’s” feelings…while breeding and breeding till applying the sharia when they become a majority.

 

[inJESUS]

Hi all!

 

[inJESUS]

I actually like what I see.

you like this as well?
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary.

though this aya is theologically wrong, but Muhammad wanted to refute that Jesus is God.

Am pretty sure you like this sentence cuz you are Muslim.

It’s similar to Christianity,

 

[inJESUS]

Well, one thing would be rules for cleanliness:

daily bathing, constant washing of the hands and feet, and purity of food were new things that Muhammad introduced.

 

[inJESUS]

You actually read the Quran

yes.

and found it to be violent??

 

[inJESUS]

I see absolutely no direct command in the Quran to do immoral things

. sure, cuz you are Muslim

Not even contradicted ones.

 

[cestusdei]

pro,
Actually I do worry about you. You can leave the Church and we won’t do anything to you, but if you decide Islam isn’t right you endanger your life. Think about that difference. The pope is right. I think that you are in for a big let down with Islam. I will pray that you realize the truth you seek you are leaving behind. I don’t believe you will remain a Muslim once you see the reality.

 

[exoflare]

This is not entirely true. It is necessary to read them to interpret the book properly in the way it was meant to be read, and to help figure out all the rules that can come from it. Commentaries give more context and illustrate what the book means by examples from the time. This is the same with the bible…it’s easy to say “oh, just read the book!”, but personal biases and a lack of understanding of the context can lead you astray.

But the main things are certainly straightforward. No unprovoked killing and no forced conversion are two things that come readily from just the Quran.

First the point about the Bible is irrelevant. It was not ever Christian teaching that the Bible is self-sufficient and speaks directly to the reader. On the other hand, I always hear Muslims claim that the Quran speaks directly to the reader and is straightforward.

Also, when you say “the main things” are straightforward, I would like to know how you are picking out which passages are supposed to be “the main things” anyway. Basically you’re just picking and choosing these verses for yourself.

By drawing on the Quran itself, then making reasoned argument employing a vast array of authorities that Muslims have agreed are authoritative. That started with Muhammad; following his example and recording his sayings helped people to understand the kind of lifestyle that was commanded by the Quran.

“Vast array of authorities”? … Like who? And what do you mean that Muslims agreed on them? Ever since the dispute over the first successor of Mohammed, Muslims have not completely “agreed” on anything whatsoever regarding authority. So you’re going to have to be a LOT more specific about this.

The authority in Islam is something like the legal authority in a common law country with a constitution, to make a comparison. There is one central message that rules everything and is the final word, and then the practices of the authorities to help understand and apply the message.

Countries like this have a system in place to decide with certainty who the people in authority are, so that there is no dispute. You don’t have a bunch of self-appointed leaders with equal (subjective) claim to power. You have claimed this is not the case with Islam, and that there are definite positions of authority but so far you have not named one of them.

 

[inJESUS]

We should be grateful to God for the Pope he has given us, who will so fearlessly speak truth in the face of falsehood. We should also pray that God sets His Protective Hand about His Vicar. We may shortly have a martyr.

i got this feeling as well

 

[Eden]

I just wanted to highlight this paragraph from the Fox News Story in the link provided earlier:

In a phone call to The Associated Press, a group calling itself the “Lions of Monotheism” claimed responsibility for those attacks, saying they were carried out to protest the pope’s remarks in a speech this week in Germany linking Islam and violence.

 

[cestusdei]

Today it was reported that a man named Ali Malaik (sp?) from Somalia was executed because he converted to Christianity. May he rest in peace and pray for us.