The Pope's words on Islam

[pro_universal]

Why do you have to keep diverting the subject? I asked you whose interpretations of the Quran are authoritative for Muslims, and why. So far you still haven’t given me a single name.

There is no one name, that’s why, but four of the most widely recognized schools of Jurisprudence are those of the Imams Shafi’i, Hanaf, Hanbal, and Malik.

It’s moot as to whether or not there is one authority, because every single person even remotely approaching an authority agrees that Islam forbids killing people just because they have a different creed.

You can not like it that there is no authority, but you can’t claim tha tthere are Muslims who think this and then fail to provide an example of any significant Muslim who actually advocates this position.

 

[slyboots]

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214128,00.html
They don’t like what the Pope said.
So they firebomb **Anglican and Orthodox **churches.
I’ll bet it made sense to them.

Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." Surah 5:51

“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them.” Surah 9:121

They want us converted to Islam or dead.

And for those who didn’t notice Christ does not instruct us to kill those who do not convert (although we have sadly done so).

Mohammed does instruct his followers to kill those who are infidels. and Infidels are…"they who say "Verily God is the Messiah the son of Ibn Maryam ( son of Mary)…from Surah V

 

[hosemonkey]

Interesting that we should spend time debating a false, violent, backward religion. Islam is the sworn enemy of Christ and His Church, full stop. As for Pro_Universal, don’t let the door hit you when you leave. The Pope tells it like it is, get over it.

 

[jAlex]

jAlex,

That was a long and energetic post, but I’m going to try and take the main point here:

You’re saying that, regardless of what I say about the teachings of Islam, the actions of the followers prove that the religion commands killing, right?

If that’s the case, we can safely conclude that Christianity commands killing. There are Christians all over the world disobeying their religion right now and killing people. Latin America is a prime example, Africa is another, and Eric Rudolph is another right here in the USA.

This is very strange. You recognize that Christians kill people even though their religion forbids it; yet when Muslims kill people, you absolutely refuse to allow for the possibility that these “Muslims” disobey their religion.

Citing an article about some people in Pakistan who commit murder does not prove that Islam commanded them to do it. It doesn’t even prove that they think Islam commanded them to do it.

Do you have something besides behavior to prove your point here? If you don’t, then you have to condemn every religion…because every religion has people who will kill, regardless of what texts you show them from the books they claim to follow.

Forgive me if I was overreacting!

All the current debate aside, you are a tough debater :tiphat: I can give you that

I gotta go to sleep cause it’s past midnigth and I guess I need to chill a little and try to respond in the morning !

Good nigth!

Alex.

 

[exoflare]

You can not like it that there is no authority, but you can’t claim tha tthere are Muslims who think this and then fail to provide an example of any significant Muslim who actually advocates this position.

Advocates WHICH position? I didn’t know I was even mentioning one to you…

 

[pro_universal]

Advocates WHICH position? I didn’t know I was even mentioning one to you…

The position that killing people for not being Muslim is permissible. That’s what we were discussing right? Among other major moral laws (like those in the ten commandments).

If you don’t haave a problem with any specific teaching, I don’t really see what your complaint is about the decentralized authority.

jAlex,

Good night to you too.

 

[exoflare]

The position that killing people for not being Muslim is permissible.

Where did I say that?

 

[pro_universal]

Where did I say that?

Exoflare, See page 1 for the context of that discussion. If you aren’t claiming that Muslims are falling into the trap of believing such things…then we agree.

If you are claiming that, what exactly is it that you are trying to say?

 

[exoflare]

Exoflare, See page 1 for the context of that discussion. If you aren’t claiming that Muslims are falling into the trap of believing such things…then we agree.

If you are claiming that, what exactly is it that you are trying to say?

I’m trying to say exactly what I’ve been typing. Nothing more and nothing less. But with this allegation, either point out exactly where I said it or stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[pro_universal]

I’m trying to say exactly what I’ve been typing. Nothing more and nothing less. But with this allegation, either point out exactly where I said it or stop putting words in my mouth.

I was responding to you and others Koran quotes. If you’re offended by this, you have every chance to clear up what you mean. If you’re not talking about it, I asked you what you are talking about.

Please take the opportunity to advance the discussion, instead of taking it to get offended.

 

[exoflare]

I was responding to you and others Koran quotes. If you’re offended by this, you have every chance to clear up what you mean. If you’re not talking about it, I asked you what you are talking about.

Please take the opportunity to advance the discussion, instead of taking it to get offended.

MY Quran quotes? Point out one from this thread.

And no I don’t have to clear up what I mean. I meant exactly what I’ve been saying so far. That doesn’t include accusations against Muslims that you decided to project onto me.

 

[pro_universal]

MY Quran quotes? Point out one from this thread.

And no I don’t have to clear up what I mean. I meant exactly what I’ve been saying so far. That doesn’t include accusations against Muslims that you decided to project onto me.

Well, then I don’t understand your point, and can’t continue until you explain. If you wish to tell me what point you are getting at here, let’s continue.

If you do not, please do not expect a response.

 

[exoflare]

Well, then I don’t understand your point, and can’t continue until you explain. If you wish to tell me what point you are getting at here, let’s continue.

If you do not, please do not expect a response.

How is it that questions have a point, other than to seek a specific answer? All I’ve been doing lately is asking you questions. You answered the questions, and that would have been sufficient except for the fact that you also decided to start putting words in my mouth at the same time. This is the only reason I am continuing. If you claim I said things that I never did, you’d better believe I’m not just going to let it slide.

You’re just derailing again because you accused me of saying something and now you can’t back it up.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Where did I say that?

I don’t know about killing people for not believing in Islam but fighting them is sure prescribed by the unholy Quran.

9;29 Hillaly & Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

PS: sure sounds like Islam was spread by entirely peaceful means to me. What do you think?

 

[exoflare]

I don’t know about killing people for not believing in Islam but fighting them is sure prescribed by the unholy Quran.

9;29 Hillaly & Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

PS: sure sounds like Islam was spread by entirely peaceful means to me. What do you think?

The thing is he’s trying to demonize a huge blanket statement like “Islam says to kill all non-muslims” now, to make people reluctant to say anything that may sound even remotely similar later on. Setting up a pre-emptive strawman if you will…

 

[pro_universal]

The thing is he’s trying to demonize a huge blanket statement like “Islam says to kill all non-muslims” now, to make people reluctant to say anything that may sound even remotely similar later on. Setting up a pre-emptive strawman if you will…

A premeptive strawman? Are you serious?

There are so many posts blasting Islam on this point I couldn’t possibly respond to every one. Look around for a second before you accue me of “making a strawman.” Look at Rodrigo’s posts first, for a good example.

 

[Eden]

There are so many posts blasting Islam on this point I couldn’t possibly respond to every one.

Praise God!

 

[exoflare]

A premeptive strawman? Are you serious?

There are so many posts blasting Islam on this point I couldn’t possibly respond to every one. Look around for a second before you accue me of “making a strawman.” Look at Rodrigo’s posts first, for a good example.

I see you still have no evidence of those statements you accused me of…

 

[pro_universal]

Praise God!

You left off: “and pass the ammunition.”

I remember when you used to accuse me of falsely pretending to be Catholic. In a roundabout way, I have to apologize for getting so frustrated with you too…I realized that my beliefs about the truth simply do not fit in in the Catholic community.

I can’t honestly say that I think it’s truth, for other more important reasons primarily, but the behavior I see on this thread is certainly part of why I cannot accept that this is the truth.

These are dangerous times and the rhetoric against Muslims intensifies every day. I’m worried for the future, and I won’t be a part of risking it.

 

[Eden]

You left off: “and pass the ammunition.”

Very unusual response. I am merely exclaiming “Praise God!” that you cannot possibly respond to all posts. The less Muslim propaganda that I have to weed through in the threads on Islam, the better.