The Pope's words on Islam

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What a red herring.

The question was: Why aren’t Muslims posting on this?

The answer has nothing to do with free speech. It has everything to do with being treated decently and not insulted.

If you feel an overwhelming need to insult Muslims just because of your free speech rights, I suggest learning Christian charity.
Let me see. If Karl Keating called for the execution of Jack Chick or John Hagee, how many catholics would flood the fundamentalist forums? And if they did, might they reasonably predict that they would be treated with at least coldness if not rudeness? Maybe Muslims aren’t posting here because their counterparts have called for the assassination of the Pope and they agree…
 
Let me see. If Karl Keating called for the execution of Jack Chick or John Hagee, how many catholics would flood the fundamentalist forums? And if they did, might they reasonably predict that they would be treated with at least coldness if not rudeness? Maybe Muslims aren’t posting here because their counterparts have called for the assassination of the Pope and they agree…
Well, you can dream that all you want, but they were active here well after September 11th and the 7/7…so that theory’s out the window.

I have to say, rudeness and name calling are right up there at the top of the list. I’ve been told I should just ditch the forum myself at least three times in the past couple of days. Maybe they just got tired of people insulting them for saying what their religion teaches.
 
Their religion does not command them to do this. The reason I have a problem with Christians today on this matter is that they are absolutely unwilling to consider the possibility that extremists might be disobeying generally recognized principles of a religion to serve their own ends.
I am sorry, but that is just not true. I know you want it to be true, but it is not. The Koran is not supporting you on this one. Within the context of its pages, there are over 300 references about making war on the non-believers. The book advocates killing them…inocent or not! I have posted references on this site time and again. The Islamic faith is one of WAR, and the Koran stipulates this over and over. All believers are called to kill in the name of Allah, and those who do not are not obedient to their faith.
Please answer this question: Did it ever occur to you that terrorists might be perverting Islam the same way they perverted Christianity?
That did occur to me once…then I compared the Bible with the Koran, and it answered my question. The difference is that Jesus never tells people to go out and kill inocent people…Mohamad does this over and over and over.
I am asking myself that question right now. I’m not sure, though I certainly find Islam to be more attractive than Christianity right now. The main reason I am not Catholic, though, is that regardless of what else might be true, I simply cannot believe that it possesses the full truth.
Then you must ask yourself this question…Is the religion you will choose one of peace or violence. You can turn a blind eye to it all you want, but at the end of the day you cannot deny the scriptures of Islam…and they advocate violence. If that is the truth you seek, then you are headed in the right direction and I pitty you. If however, you seek a true religion of peace, that truth lies in the Catholic Church.
 
**** Hiya Sadie…im just wondering, i just came from the tv room,and witnessed this Chavez guy call bush a devil…now im not a bush booster but i just wondered,would bush be afforded the same if he used such caracterisation!!! Bill A.

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**** Hiya Sadie…im just wondering, i just came from the tv room,and witnessed this Chavez guy call bush a devil…now im not a bush booster but i just wondered,would bush be afforded the same if he used such caracterisation!!! Bill A.

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I feel certain that he would not. I just love that Chavez guy…oooh Venezuela, now there is a country that has us all shaking in our boots. The bottom line with Chavez is that he is a supporter of terrorists. That part of the world is famous for harboring terrorists…which is why so many of the Nazis ran to South America after WW2. Too bad that he is so insignificant that he has to call Bush the Devil for anybody to notice him.

Imagine if the Pope called the President of Iraq the Devil…now that would be something to see. Of course, the Pope would never say anything that was not based in fact, so I do not think we have anything to worry about there.

Cheers!
 
I just heard that Chavez is at a baptist church somewhere offering low cost oil subsidies to low income Americans. People are showing up by the bus loads. Divide and conquer, eh?
 
pro, Muslims insult us all the time. If I can take it then so can they. It’s part of living in a free society. Catholics aren’t out there trying to kill them for insulting us. I would say it is very uncharitable to say you will kill the Pope because you don’t like what he says. But I guess that doesn’t bother you. They need to learn to deal with real debate and disagreement in a non-violent manner. Which was the Pope’s point.
 
pro, Muslims insult us all the time. If I can take it then so can they. It’s part of living in a free society. Catholics aren’t out there trying to kill them for insulting us. I would say it is very uncharitable to say you will kill the Pope because you don’t like what he says. But I guess that doesn’t bother you. They need to learn to deal with real debate and disagreement in a non-violent manner. Which was the Pope’s point.
That doesn’t answer the question.

“I can do this” is different from “I should do this.”

Are you saying that it’s good to insult all Muslims because some Muslims insult the Church?
 
Well, maybe you think it’s true. Muslims certainly do not think it is true that Muhammad only brought evil.
So? Chairman Mao and his followers didn’t think there was anything wrong with the Cultural Revolution. Fortunately, mere opinion doesn’t trump fact.

It is an undeniable fact that far too many Muslims, regardless of the intentions of the Prophet, practice a violent religion today, right now. Muslims react to people pointing out this truth by murdering a nun, calling for the Pope’s death, burning down churches, et cetera, which only proves the point.

Nonsense about Muslims thinking Christianity is even more violent is just that: nonsense. It isn’t Christians sawing the heads off of hostages, blowing up school children, launching rockets at civilians from the safety of residential neighborhoods, et cetera. It is Muslims doing these things.

Anyone who’s actually bothered to read Benedict XVI’s entire speech cannot help but agree with him…unless, of course, the reader is an apologist for murderers.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
pro, Muslims think ANY criticism, negative comment, or disagreement is an insult and then they try to kill you for it. See anything wrong with that?
 
Their religion does not command them to do this. The reason I have a problem with Christians today on this matter is that they are absolutely unwilling to consider the possibility that extremists might be disobeying generally recognized principles of a religion to serve their own ends.
If this is so, and the terrorists are disobeying generally recognized principles, then where is the rebuke from the rest of Islam? The “real muslims” should have spoken out by now, openly admonishing the dissidents. Yet I have not seen that. Also, there are many, many muslims who are advocates of violence and terrorism. It is not a small sect of dissidents. Muslim clerics all through out the world call for our blood. If they are the minorty and in the wrong, according to thier own religous principles, then where is the rightous majorities’ outcry? The lack thereof begs to differ from what you said.
 
If this is so, and the terrorists are disobeying generally recognized principles, then where is the rebuke from the rest of Islam? .
It does happen and I have posted examples in these forums. But moderates speaking out against extremists is boring news. Its the sort of thing which doesn’t get much coverage because it is not out of the ordinary. Violence, on the other hand, is out of the ordinary which is why we hear about it when it happens. News coverage, by its very nature, presents a pessimistic view of the world.
 
pro, you are holding Catholics and Muslims to two different standards.

You are angry and disappointed with Catholics and Christianity for their words yet you don’t hold Islam responsible for anything it’s followers say.

As for the “maybe they’re tired of being insulted” response…sounds more like a lack of conviction to me.
 
If this is so, and the terrorists are disobeying generally recognized principles, then where is the rebuke from the rest of Islam? The “real muslims” should have spoken out by now, openly admonishing the dissidents. Yet I have not seen that. Also, there are many, many muslims who are advocates of violence and terrorism. It is not a small sect of dissidents. Muslim clerics all through out the world call for our blood. If they are the minorty and in the wrong, according to thier own religous principles, then where is the rightous majorities’ outcry? The lack thereof begs to differ from what you said.
Please name one major Islamic leader who has not condemned terrorism.

You’re claiming “clerics throughout the world call for our blood.” Yet I can’t find a single Islamic spiritual leader who does not condemn terrorism besides Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

So please, find an Islamic spiritual leader besides Al Qaeda itself that does not condemn terrorism.
 
Please name one major Islamic leader who has not condemned terrorism.

You’re claiming “clerics throughout the world call for our blood.” Yet I can’t find a single Islamic spiritual leader who does not condemn terrorism besides Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

So please, find an Islamic spiritual leader besides Al Qaeda itself that does not condemn terrorism.
It does not matter if they condemn it or not. What matters is that they support it every day. They also support violence against Christianity and public anti-Christian displays.

What they say to the camera is not significant. The way that they handle themselves off camera is…and you know this Pro.
 
pro, sure they condemn “terrorism”, but they don’t consider the jihad to be terrorism. Ask them to condemn terrorist groups like hezbullah, hamas, islamic jihad etc. They won’t do it. We have yet to even see a real fatwa against Osama. They are quick to condemn our self-defense as terrorism, but when you parse it out there is no Islamic terrorism that they will in fact condemn. It is bait and switch.
 
It does not matter if they condemn it or not. What matters is that they support it every day. They also support violence against Christianity and public anti-Christian displays.

What they say to the camera is not significant. The way that they handle themselves off camera is…and you know this Pro.
I see…so now it’s a billion man secret conspiracy we’re dealing with.

People once said the same thing about Jews…“look, they do all this bank planning in secret you see!”…

Some things will never change, I guess.
 
I see…so now it’s a billion man secret conspiracy we’re dealing with.

People once said the same thing about Jews…“look, they do all this bank planning in secret you see!”…

Some things will never change, I guess.
Oh, spew, Pro. Give us a break. Do not try to paint the Muslims into a holocaust scene. More like the Nazis instead of the Jews, pro, from where we are sitting.

The point of fact is the Catholic Church is not waging war on Islam. Yet Islam is issuing fatwas against the Pope and burning the Pope in effigy. These are facts Pro. You cannot deny them. Is all of Islam burning the Pope in effigy? No. But that does not deny that Muslims view themselves as terribly insulted by about the only christian friend they have. Irrational. And their behavior and outrage is simply not defensible, pro. It isn’t. Even poor old John Paul II outraged and alienated many, many Catholics with his attempts at friendship with Islam. Islamic hatred of the Pope is simply not defensible. I repeat, even within his own church, Pope Benedict is Islam’s best non muslim friend. So either Muslims as a whole have built in violence in their religion and theology or they are just plain stupid. I do not believe they are stupid- so please explain why they would act so stupidly as to attack their best friend? It would seem that if Islam truly wanted to live in peace with the rest of the world, the Pope would be the very last person they would attack, now wouldn’t it?
 
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