The Post-Modern War Movie

[Norm640]

Ever notice that war movies these days aren’t about victories, but about US failures?

For example, the movie out now “Lone Survivor” is a harrowing tale of bravery, but it is also about a colossal US military failure.

“Zero Dark Thirty” was a great movie about the hunt and killing of bin Laden, but if you’ve watched it you feel a little down because that didn’t change anything.

“Blackhawk Down” is one of my favorite movies, but is about, again, a massive military failure.

“The Thin Red Line”, about Vietnam, was anti-war at worst, ambivalent at best.

“Saving Private Ryan” was a great WWII film, but the film didn’t focus on the main themes of the war, but rather used a personal story (finding a lone surviving family member) to make the “war is hell” argument with a little moral equivalence thrown in.

“Schindler’s List” was a great movie, but was sort of an academic view of the Holocaust (my opinion).

Since the end of the 80s and the Cold War, it seems as if America hates itself. I know that from a Hollywood perspective you have to have an interesting story, but in these movies there has been a herculean effort to de-emphasize the moralities at war here, the good and the evil. Just something I’ve noted…

(It could also be that one could say we’ve failed in recent wars and that is why we have movies showing that…like the agonizing series of anti-US movies in the 80s and early 90s about Vietnam…)

 

[Blood_Angel]

“The Thin Red Line”, about Vietnam, was anti-war at worst, ambivalent at best.

The Thin Red Line wasn’t about Vietnam it was the Battle of Mount Austen, which was part of the Guadalcanal Campaign in the Pacific Theater of World War II.

It’s also my favourite war film, it’s quite philosophical and spiritual.

In my opinion people’s opinion on war has changed I suppose. War is something which should not be celebrated like if your baseball teams beats their rival.

“Men are at war with each other because each man is at war with himself.”

 

[TRH1292]

Hmm. I think from a Catholic perspective some of those trends may be a very good thing. Portraying war as awful as it is makes military aggression less likely and avoids the romanticizing aspect.

In any case, the more peaceful the better.

 

[RPRPsych]

Hmm. I think from a Catholic perspective some of those trends may be a very good thing. Portraying war as awful as it is makes military aggression less likely and avoids the romanticizing aspect.

In any case, the more peaceful the better.

We must also note that most such movies, these days, are made with an eye to winning Oscars rather than viewers’ hearts. Hence the darkness, the emphasis on “Mission Failed”, and so on.

 

[Norm640]

Yes, I meant WW2. It came out so long ago and I saw it so long ago I had forgotten. I didn’t like the film…acting was pretty bad, in my opinion…

The Thin Red Line wasn’t about Vietnam it was the Battle of Mount Austen, which was part of the Guadalcanal Campaign in the Pacific Theater of World War II.

It’s also my favourite war film, it’s quite philosophical and spiritual.

In my opinion people’s opinion on war has changed I suppose. War is something which should not be celebrated like if your baseball teams beats their rival.

“Men are at war with each other because each man is at war with himself.”

 

[Norm640]

The only problem with that is peaceful war movies aren’t realistic. I’m not talking about films that glorify war, I’m talking about films that portray it as it was, good and bad.

If you portray a war film “more peaceful” then you are most definitely romanticizing the subject, not the other way around.

“The Passion of the Christ”, for example, was way too violent and I thought went overboard. Lost in all the blood and bone was the humanity of Jesus. His brutal torture and death is seen more as an exercise against the senses, and you’re blown away by it that at the end when Christ rises, you just are like ???

I would think a real Catholic perspective on a war film would be to show the reality. Nothing makes a better case for the horror of war than reality. If you make it all peaceful then war has lost its impact, if you make it too bloody and overboard you brutalize the audience.

“Saving Private Ryan” had fantastic war scenes, not overboard, and conveyed the horrors of war more than “The Thin Red Line”, etc.

I don’t understand why any Catholic would want to make a war film “more peaceful” . That makes no sense to me. It probably wouldn’t make any sense to the millions of Catholics over the years who have died for their religion and the cause of good, either. What man is capable of is horrible. It speaks for itself. Which is why I like realism in films and think there should be a restraint on “messages” from directors.

Talk to anyone who survived WW2 and they aren’t waxing philosophical about the meaning of war, life, etc., as they were in Thin Red Line.

Hmm. I think from a Catholic perspective some of those trends may be a very good thing. Portraying war as awful as it is makes military aggression less likely and avoids the romanticizing aspect.

In any case, the more peaceful the better.

 

[edwest2]

Ever notice that war movies these days aren’t about victories, but about US failures?

For example, the movie out now “Lone Survivor” is a harrowing tale of bravery, but it is also about a colossal US military failure.

“Zero Dark Thirty” was a great movie about the hunt and killing of bin Laden, but if you’ve watched it you feel a little down because that didn’t change anything.

“Blackhawk Down” is one of my favorite movies, but is about, again, a massive military failure.

“The Thin Red Line”, about Vietnam, was anti-war at worst, ambivalent at best.

“Saving Private Ryan” was a great WWII film, but the film didn’t focus on the main themes of the war, but rather used a personal story (finding a lone surviving family member) to make the “war is hell” argument with a little moral equivalence thrown in.

“Schindler’s List” was a great movie, but was sort of an academic view of the Holocaust (my opinion).

Since the end of the 80s and the Cold War, it seems as if America hates itself. I know that from a Hollywood perspective you have to have an interesting story, but in these movies there has been a herculean effort to de-emphasize the moralities at war here, the good and the evil. Just something I’ve noted…

(It could also be that one could say we’ve failed in recent wars and that is why we have movies showing that…like the agonizing series of anti-US movies in the 80s and early 90s about Vietnam…)

America doesn’t hate itself, some University level academics hate America.

The Thin Red Line took place at Gaudalcanal during World War II.

Lone Survivor was about a situation where one man is all that’s left of an elite team. It could have happened during World War II where the Americans didn’t always win, sometimes due to faulty intelligence or a mistake.

Saving Private Ryan focused a little bit on everything. As someone who studies World War II history, I am aware of the actual events that took place.

Vietnam was a war without an objective - a clear military objective. It was based on a flawed idea. Much like the Korean War, where American intervention turned into a proxy war between the Americans, Russians and Chinese, with some North Koreans. The war is not over. Only an armistice was signed.

Blackhawk Down, a failure? With helicopters, those sorts of things happen. I applaud the two brave snipers who went down to try to keep the bad guys at bay long enough for a possible rescue. That was bravery. I know a former soldier who was deployed there. Why we were there is still vague. Duty to country is my take.

If you look at the statistics about those American soldiers who actually hated the Nazis against those who were serving their country out of a sense of duty, most guys were just there to win the war, and go home. It was not until later that we officially learned the plight of those Hitler exterminated and wanted to exterminate.

The thing I hate about modern war movies and a lot of movies that show killing, is buckets of blood, guts and other things that were very rarely shown in the pre-1980 war movies. My dad, who was a World War II vet, rarely spoke about the things he saw, and the same was true of his vet buddies I grew up with. Interviews with still living veterans over the last 10 years have shown that they had to be in a frame of mind that if most their squad ended up dead and dying around them, they had to keep fighting or withdraw. All the blood and gore was not dwelt on.

Hollywood - and only Hollywood - is responsible for the graphic, needless visuals we’re getting, plus more profanity.

Platoon was mostly good but it was just a window. If the average viewer did not know what was going on in Vietnam, it was just a bit more graphic version of similar war movies.

Peace,
Ed