The Power of Music

[Peeps]

BTW, more than half of our schola members are in their 20s and 30s. Our main Sunday choir is mostly people 60 and older.

Do you live in a city or town that has consistently funded its public school music programs (K-grade 12) for the last 50 years?

Is your city or town diverse racially?

 

[snarflemike]

I’m not on the witness stand, and your questions are taking a decidedly odd turn.

 

[AlmaRedemptorisMater]

What are you driving at here?

 

[Peeps]

I’m not on the witness stand, and your questions are taking a decidedly odd turn.

OK, I won’t try to play any games with you.

You are fortunate that you have young people who are willing and ABLE to step up and learn chant in a schola setting. I am curious as to how this came to be in your city or town.

We have a Latin Mass parish in our city, and the organist/musical director has had wonderful success with the schola. It’s all male and includes all ages of males, including several males with unchanged voices.

The congregation at the Latin Mass parish does not sing other than the occasional hymn after the Mass has ended. I personally would not do well in this setting as I love to sing and I love hymns from all historical periods and genres. But that is the tradition of the Latin Mass. If this were my only Catholic Mass option, I would attend an additional worship service at a Protestant church to be able to sing, sing SING glorious hymns and contemporary Christian music.

For almost a decade, our city eliminated music education from our public schools. The result, as you can imagine, is a generation of young adults who don’t know how to make their own music. They can listen to their I-Phone and use earbuds and headsets, but they do not know how to read music, and they are generally unaware of “church” music of any kind.

They also don’t know how to help their children become musically literate.

Music education has been restored to our schools, although it is still poorly funded and staffed.

The Catholic schools are not much better. Most of them have closed. The large Catholic high school has an amazing music program with good teachers, and many of their graduates have gone on to be Broadway and off-Broadway performers and musicians in other genres. They don’t stay in our city.

Of the few Catholic K-8 schools that are still open, one has a “real” music teacher with certification and knowledge in proper singing techniques and the ability and motivation to teach children how to read music. (This teacher works at the parish that can afford to send their children to that large Catholic high school with the excellent music program.)

One of the Catholic K-8 schools is affiliated with the Latin Mass parish, and their teacher is excellent at teaching traditional music. Most of the students stick with the Latin Mass parish rather than attend an OF parish.

The other Catholic schools share a music teacher, who teaches “rock”. I’m not kidding–they have formed a “rock music choir” and do rock arrangements of the Gather hymns.

We also have a large African American population in the city, and the public schools are under pressure to include a lot of “ethnic” music in their curriculum. There is a decided de-emphasis of traditional “white Euro-centric” music in our public schools, and an emphasis on hip-hop, rap, and dancing to the music.

con’d next post

 

[Peeps]

We used to have a large boys choir (world-famous), but it has dwindled to less than a dozen boys AND girls. It is taught by the gentleman who is the organist at the Latin Mass parish.

We used to have another large mixed choir, which actually was divided into younger and older children. I was the accompanist (paid) for this choir for many years, and the directors were amazing teachers. But those choirs are gone now. No interest from the community.

There’s a children’s choir led by a community activist who basically teaches them songs about peace, love, diversity, inclusion, and joy of life. There is no music, just words, and the children are taught the songs by ear, not by reading a score. It’s basically a glee club with the purpose of making our city a more peaceful place to live. It’s definitely not music-education for the young.

My point is–there are many cities like ours that have little knowledge of music other than “popular” and little liking for learning how to read music or learn anything about “traditional” music. The OF parishes are not rebelling against the Church’s preferences–they just aren’t capable of carrying them out. And when musically-knowledgeable people try to get them interested, all they hear and see are the crickets.

I don’t foresee any changes in the near future, especially here in Illinois. Many people who might try to start something are trying to get out of this high-tax state that is now calling itself “the most progressive state in the Union when it comes to women’s reproductive freedom.” God help us.

Again, you are fortunate that you don’t live in such a place.

 

[snarflemike]

I understand the point of the questions, so I will volunteer some data.

Our pastor, who supported the formation of the schola, is hispanic. English is not his first language.

Our other priest, who is delighted to have the schola sing at his Masses, is a recent arrival from Africa. English is not his first or second language.

One of our singers is an hispanic woman in her 20s, who has asked the schola to sing for her upcoming wedding Mass (one of 3 weddings of 20-somethings that the schola will be singing for this year).

Another of our singers is an asian man of around 30, who is an excellent church organist.

And another is a Filipino woman, who also does not speak English as her first language.

I find that the people who are most opposed to chant and polyphony are actually descendents of Europeans, who often claim to speak for the wants and needs of non-Europeans. We joke about the “Eeww! Chant cooties!” crowd. It’s a very strange phenomenon.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

However, my big question is why should any concert be performed in the sanctuary if the church has a perfectly good auditorium with a proper stage?

That’s true that there aren’t any benefits. Whoever is in charge doesn’t seem to be doing good in that area.

 

[OraLabora]

BTW, more than half of our schola members are in their 20s and 30s. Our main Sunday choir is mostly people 60 and older.

We’re the opposite, almost all of our schola members are over 60. We’ve had some young ones in their 20s/30s but they haven’t stuck around. Mostly, I think, because that generation tends to move around quite a bit. I’m 61 and have been in the schola 17 years.

 

[Babaganoush]

No, it doesn’t imply that. If your vices affect your perspective so would your virtues. What it does imply though is that just as your habits affect your view of beauty, maybe beauty also affects your habits or your perspective on them at least. So maybe we should be seeking to understand how beauty is defined by the Church. The church definitely doesn’t believe in a relative concept of beauty, otherwise there would be no difference between Gregorian chant and folk music. Or between the virtuous man and the vicious man for that matter. The church’s application of beauty in the past was intentional, even if it wasn’t stated outright.

You can’t define beauty without subjectivity, but since when does subjectivity mean that something isn’t objective. Just because a subject occupies a particular place in time and space and a perspective doesn’t imply that the object doesn’t exist.

 

[JButky]

You can’t define beauty without subjectivity, but since when does subjectivity mean that something isn’t objective.

Yes I can agree with most of that except this last part quoted. If you are being objective and using a criteria, it is not subjective. It just does not qualify for making a subjective judgement. You only have an objective judgement that a criteria is met. Neither beautiful or non beautiful, only meeting a standard of criteria by degree.

I do agree that beauty is based on your perspective and in ways that perspective is affected.

Thanks for your explanation…

 

[Babaganoush]

Then there is no such thing as objectivity because everything comes from someone’s subjective perspective (all perspective is subjective).

 

[JButky]

Not really, you can just be biased from your perspective for or against an objective criteria. Otherwise, there is no truth. There is Truth and there are also various opinions about it, from any perspective as influentially described. They are not mutually dependent.

But it is an interesting thought to ponder.

Apologies to everyone else while Babaganoush and I engage in some philosophy.

Been enjoying this whole thread.

 

[pnewton]

because I have found that non-American-born priests value obedience more than American-born priests do

The question here is how “obedience” is defined. Is it following the general instruction for all the Roman Catholic Church? Is it following Canon Law? The latter clearly states that the implementation locally of that which is issued generally is the responsibility of the bishop of that area, who can control tightly, or delegate to the parish, how to implement the liturgy. Since there are many options for music, I would ask which is more obedient, following that which is implemented locally, or following one’s own opinion of how the GIRM should be implemented in one’s parish.

I know it is not easy when priests do not listen to the faithful, but if obedience was easy, it would merely be coincidence (coinciding with the priest’s opinion), not obedience. It is only when we do not agree our obedience can be real.

 

[pnewton]

“Western Thought” is hardly monolithic. 2500 years ago, the idea of beauty was missing classic rock. Hopefully, that has been remedied for those in Heaven.

All secular music is not fit for Mass. This does not mean that all secular music styles are unfit for Mass.

 

[snarflemike]

All secular music is not fit for Mass. This does not mean that all secular music styles are unfit for Mass.

Well, the statement that I was disputing was that “Everything is subjective.” To say that not all secular music is fit for Mass would also seem to dispute that statement. Then the question becomes, upon what basis do we decide what music is and is not suitable for Mass?

 

[pnewton]

Then the question becomes, upon what basis do we decide what music is and is not suitable for Mass?

Simple. We don’t. The bishop does.

 

[snarflemike]

Simple. We don’t. The bishop does.

Good luck with that.

 

[Dougbro1]

Then the question becomes, upon what basis do we decide what music is and is not suitable for Mass?

Well, for this we can look to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1156 "The musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art. the main reason for this pre-eminence is that, as a combination of sacred music and words, it forms a necessary or integral part of solemn liturgy."20 The composition and singing of inspired psalms, often accompanied by musical instruments, were already closely linked to the liturgical celebrations of the Old Covenant. the Church continues and develops this tradition: “Address . . . one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart.” "He who sings prays twice."21

1157 Song and music fulfill their function as signs in a manner all the more significant when they are “more closely connected . . . with the liturgical action,” (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P38.HTM#$1FR) according to three principal criteria: beauty expressive of prayer, the unanimous participation of the assembly at the designated moments, and the solemn character of the celebration. In this way they participate in the purpose of the liturgical words and actions: the glory of God and the sanctification of the faithful .(http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P38.HTM#$1FS)

1158 The harmony of signs (song, music, words, and actions) is all the more expressive and fruitful when expressed in the cultural richness of the People of God who celebrate. (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P38.HTM#$1FU) Hence “religious singing by the faithful is to be intelligently fostered so that in devotions and sacred exercises as well as in liturgical services,” in conformity with the Church’s norms, “the voices of the faithful may be heard.” But “the texts intended to be sung must always be in conformity with Catholic doctrine. Indeed they should be drawn chiefly from the Sacred Scripture and from liturgical sources.” (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P38.HTM#$1FV)

 

[EmmaSowl]

The OF parishes are not rebelling against the Church’s preferences–they just aren’t capable of carrying them out.

I agreed with much of your post, but I don’t think I buy this. I understand that there may be parishes that have never heard chant, but it’s just about the easiest music to learn.

Let me clarify what I mean by chant. I don’t know anything about intricate chant. Every time I’ve heard chant, it’s been simple and within an easy range. The notes are actually easier to follow than notes with stems.

Again, I’ve heard things like Tantum Ergo and Kyries and the Our Father chanted in English. When these types of chants are dusted off, it is one of the few times when you can hear the faithful over the miked-up choir. Part of that may be because the old fogies still remember them from their youth.

However, I did not learn them in my youth, and I find them extremely easy. If they’re in Latin, not quite as much (I get my Latin/Spanish pronunciations mixed up). Plus, I don’t know what they mean. I’m a fan of chant in English - unless there’s a rule against that, then I’d immediately give up my fandom.

The thing I cannot stress enough is that I don’t care whether or not I personally like a song. I care if the song is in keeping with the rubrics.

 

[EmmaSowl]

Since there are many options for music, I would ask which is more obedient, following that which is implemented locally, or following one’s own opinion of how the GIRM should be implemented in one’s parish.

Following what is implemented locally - unless what is implemented is in objective violation of the GIRM, which no one has the authority to overrule.

Here are some examples from my parish which I do not think any reading of the GIRM could possibly allow:

1. Replacing the Responsorial Psalm (sacred scripture sung at the ambo) with a paraphrased song (words of some composer dude).
2. Using the same Alleluia Verse every week, year after year.
3. Refusing to give the people lyrics and/or notes.
4. Holding concerts in the sanctuary as if it were a stage.
5. Forcing the music of a culture which does not attend a particular Mass onto people of a different culture.

I might be able to give more examples if you cited the Canon Law you are thinking of so that I can see for myself what it clearly states.

But I will also give an example of something I obey despite my personal preference: whether or not to kneel after the Agnus Dei.

The GIRM states that, while the universal norm is to remain standing, in the US, the norm is to kneel unless the bishop directs otherwise. None of my bishops have ever directed otherwise, so I knelt for a few years despite the fact that individual priests told us not to.

However, I attended a Mass at the cathedral in which Cardinal Mahoney presented us with nubile dancers in flimsy attire prancing around with pots of smoke held high above them - it looked like a procession announcing the arrival of Caligula from a scene out of I, Claudius. Naturally, there was no kneeling after the Agnus Dei.

As much as the dancers made me ill, I had to separate them from the kneeling thing. I studied the GIRM and concluded that, although our bishop didn’t have the guts to make a public statement, the word used in the GIRM was “direct” not “declare”. I concluded that his actions were a direction, so now I do not kneel. I want to kneel. I yearn to kneel. But I do not kneel.