The Power of Music

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It is only my opinion, but no Catholic hymn should start with dissonance A G-chord with a C# is a grinding sound.
I guess we shouldn’t sing anything in the Gregorian Mode V either if that is the case.

Seriously, Opinions of the song itself are what they are, but handling that interval correctly and its context are what’s important. Dissonance is an important aspect of music used in many ways. And in this song, the interval is treated as it should be in its particular context.

But I can understand why some people don’t like it or understand it.
 
My own son is musician in the Marine Corp.
When he went through Catholic Schools he rolled his eyes at the “youth music” that is STILL foisted on young people.

My son watched Lord of the Rings etc…which has a fairly substantial score or classic music. Listened to more intense popular music. Many adults are pandering to teenagers in a way that fails to appreciate their real life circumstances, and the music we hear at our “youth Mass” reflects that misunderstanding.

Baby boomer music directors please listen:
If you want young people to have an intense experience of the faith, the music cannot be innocuous and bland. It should convey something of the sacred and have some spiritual intensity to it. Christianity is supposed to be a life changing experience and music should reflect that.
 
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As to the antiphons,one reason I don’t use them is their length. If you speak the Communion antiphon a couple of times, for example, and think how many could receive during that time, it is on the single digits. Yet we are told to sing throughout Communion.
 
Can chant even be said to have chords? I really don’t know. On the bright side, when I was playing guitar, such challenges kept me learning.
 
You’re right, the antiphon on its own would be short for a lot of situations. But that just means a hymn can be sung in addition. What’s usually done a hymn is sung instead, and the actual text of the Mass is removed from the Mass.

Also, I believe the propers have verses to go along with antiphons, which lengthens the time. This is at least true for Sundays.
 
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I’m organist at our parish as previous one has got arthritis coming on in his fingers. Non of us in the choir can sing all that well but I don’t care tbo infact I would like the whole congregation to be singing their hearts out croaky voices included lol. Any professional singers would of course be welcomed but we do what we can with what we have. Even still there sure is power in the music especially if you sing it yourself it’s an expression like praying to God.

Ps I also like solemn masses without music different experience.
 
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If you want participation from the gathered at Mass the music has to singable.
For example, Black Mountain Liturgy. The setting is lovely and all but the music is written for someone with some vocal ability. There are a lot of wide intervals and high notes.
High notes discourage singing.
 
As to the antiphons,one reason I don’t use them is their length. If you speak the Communion antiphon a couple of times, for example, and think how many could receive during that time, it is on the single digits. Yet we are told to sing throughout Communion.
The communion antiphons, at least in Gregorian chant, are meant to be accompanied with psalm verses, sung on the solemn tone. The antiphon is sung, a psalm verse, then the antiphon repeated. The choirmaster glances over to see how many people are in line; usually one or two psalm verses, which means the antiphon is sung either two or three times, will suffice; I’ve seen it go as high as three on big days like Christmas and Easter. At weekday Mass, sometimes the antiphon alone suffices.

The Graduale Romanum has the references just below the antiphon for which psalm verses to use.
Also, I believe the propers have verses to go along with antiphons, which lengthens the time. This is at least true for Sundays.
It is true for every day; most weekdays, the Sunday antiphons are used, with occasionally different ones on specific days. In the last week of Advent and all of Lent, every day has its proper antiphons. For each communion antiphon, the Graduale specifies the verses to use as I mentioned above. They aren’t compulsory, at a very sparsely attended weekday Mass when communion is over quickly the antiphon alone can suffice especially if it’s a longer one.

As for the OP’s rant about Gregorian chant having “pride of place” but being rarely heard, I’ll say it again, unless folks step up to the plate and form/join a schola, it ain’t going to happen. I joined a schola 17 years ago, it has been a very rewarding experience. The Vatican does not have a trained army of Gregorian paratroopers ready to drop into a parish at a moment’s notice if the parish decides they want chant. It takes effort, commitment, learning, rehearsing, starting with the simpler settings at first. Gregorian chant done poorly is miserable. And the EF is not a guarantee of great chant, I know of an FSSP parish that apparently, according to a fellow chorister and choirmaster, is terrible! Yet at our OF Mass at the local monastery it is sublime. Practice, practice practice!
 
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I see your point, but the foundation of obedience is love. In last Sunday’s Gospel, Jesus said “Whoever loves me will keep my word.” Obedience springs from love, but love is the necessary virtue that saves us. Or maybe it is faith. Jesus was known to say “Your faith has saved you,” but rarely if ever “The truth has saved you.” But truth is important.
Truth is more than important. Jesus is truth itself. Jesus saved us. Truth saved us.

Yes, obedience springs from love. Therefore, it is possible that lack of obedience is proof of a lack of love.

Lack of obedience could also be due to other things, but lack of love is a possibility.
 
Now - as for music at mass - speaking as a cradle Catholic of 50 years, and, one who has spent 35 years in various music schools and ministries…

You might want to consider going in the exact opposite direction you’re headed…
What is the opposite direction in which I should go? Should I reject the words of our bishops in union with Rome?
In your case, it would probably be better for you to spend more time reading the words until you understand them before singing any further - because it is apparently making you too judgmental of appearances, not judging justly…
Which words should I be reading for understanding? The words of composers or the words of our bishops?

What appearances do you think I’m judging? How is my judgment unjust?
I dont know (or care) what your skill level is at all, or even if you have any…
Does it matter if I have any?
But I’ve spent years with some pretty talented music teachers, Catholic or not, who - with kindness, charity, joy and happiness are willing to sit patiently enduring horrible performances, mistakes and the most hideous caterwauling one can imagine… so they can help a student get a few strains right… I admire them, and I would myself do the same, for they play and sound awesome - but it was love that pulled them through… not arrogance…
Do you mean rehearsal performances or Mass performances? We would not put a stuttering lector in the sanctuary until he was able to overcome his stutter with all the wonderful help you described.

I have extremely mixed feelings about encouraging child performers because I was one. It is a lot of stress on the child. It can also set them up to have an inaccurate view of the amount of adulation they can expect later in life.

I have no doubt that there are many loving, patient choir directors who want the best for the children they are mentoring. But there is no category of people who are saints by profession.

I have seen an anxiety-filled choir director speak roughly to children during pre-Mass rehearsal. I once ended up alone in the restroom with a young-teen choir member who was in tears. I don’t know why she was crying. Possibly purely hormonal. I just grabbed her and hugged her and said, “I don’t know who made you cry but I bet the person didn’t mean to. I bet the person loves you. Even if the person doesn’t love you, Jesus loves you.” And she hugged me back and we mutually let go and we never spoke of it since.

Please tell me what it was in the post you replied to that indicated I was unloving and arrogant toward child singers so that I can work on removing the beam in my eye. We are brothers in Christ. If you have removed your splinter, you are charged with helping me remove my beam. I have family rights! 🙂
 
What you are saying about the GIRM isn’t untrue, btw…
What did I say that wasn’t true?
There’s LOTS more to be known about it in V2, if not real life experience… LOTS more… In fact, a treasure trove of information infinitely beautiful…
I’m a V2 Gal! I love V2! I love the GIRM because it’s the newest practical V2 word on the liturgy (like the catechism is the newest V2 word on the death penalty).

Of course both new words bring new questions. I’m glad to be a V2 Gal, encouraged by popes to ask questions so that the Church can continue to clarify as she sees fit.
no more throwing the baby out with the bathwater…
What baby am I advocating throwing out?
So give up on music
Is it your Catholic stance that I should go away?
 
What does she play or is she doing something else?
I hope you don’t mind if I stay away from specifics. She’s in management/production, so she associates with pretty much everyone involved in a production or event, from the investors and producers to the actors/musicians/dancers to the stage hands and crew and volunteers. She’s also a member of the faculty at a university.
 
The Vatican does not have a trained army of Gregorian paratroopers ready to drop into a parish at a moment’s notice if the parish decides they want chant.
This is a hilarious image! Someone should write a graphic novel about it! The imagery that my mind conjures up is a hoot! We have a really tall ceiling in our nave, so I can truly picture Gregorian paratroopers dropping in on our Mass!

Seriously, though, your post is right on. For several months our parish did Latin chant for the responses, and most people just stood there–it sounded pretty bad, frankly. And at least one of the accompanists (piano) created a very rich accompaniment for those chants, complete with chord progressions, arpeggios, and a lovely harmony. I have to say though, that I found it kind of “off”–chant isn’t meant to be accompanied. It’s kind of like when a pianist like Victor Borge performs a nursery rhyme as a concerto–it’s almost…sorry, everyone…funny. But I must say, when that accompanist played that accompaniment for the chants–people actually sang it instead of just standing. However, when I simply gave the pitch and let the cantor chant a cappella, very few people in the congregation joined the cantor.

So what’s an accompanist to do with chant? If we play a nice modern accompaniment to go along with the chant, people sing. But if we allow the cantor to chant unaccompanied, everyone just stands there.

Oh, well. Our parish stopped doing the chant at Easter, and I don’t think it will come back until Advent. It just didn’t seem to work.
 
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Many churches have “silent Masses” in the sense of no music, on a regular basis, either because some people prefer them or because they cannot have musicians on hand for every Mass. There’s nothing wrong with “silent Mass” as an option. However, it should be just that, an option, not the norm for every Mass.

I would say most of the weekday Masses I attend do not have music.
Yes, our parish weekday Masses generally have no music, although often, a parishioner will start a hymn after the Mass has ended, usually a Marian hymn. And people join in.
 
Yeah, we have a Marian hymn after some Masses too because it’s the start of the Miraculous Medal Novena and a hymn is listed in the little novena book.

The point is, there’s nothing wrong with having a silent Mass. I can tell you at 6:30 am when I have not had coffee or breakfast because of the need to fast before Communion, I am definitely not ready to be belting out any kind of song.
 
I commented only on two things, of which the OP has not explained. How does she know she knows more than cradle Catholics? She doesn’t. She made a generalization based on a few people she works with.
I’m sorry if it was unclear that I was not referring to every cradle Catholic. As others kindly pointed out, I was simply sharing my personal experience. Otjm guessed the diocese correctly. In the secular world, things that happen in my neck of the woods tend to spread to the rest of the country. I don’t know if it’s the same with the Church.

Otjm’s facts and statistics meant much to me. I wish they had debunked me. I’d rather find out I was delusional. But facts are facts and it’s best to know the truth, even if you have to watch it hang on a cross.
 
I wonder what the acoustics are like at that church? I think that can have a big influence on how much people sing.
 
The Problem? Resources. Possibly. Palestrina can be difficult without some training. Parishes with large coffers, use some of that money for a nice, paid choir a la a Cathedral. Parishes with less resources, it’s pretty easy to learn some of the older hymns that are beautiful. And a little bit of harmony goes a long way. Just do a little digging. We have 2,000 years folks. There should be no excuse for some of these parishes.
I joined my first parish in 1992 (if that helps give a reference point). There was a young choir director who had no formal training, but he had been trained by his mother who was also a professional choir director. He played the organ himself and sang beautifully. The choir had 60 people in the choir loft - quite a few of whom could sing. About a dozen were men (mostly singing melody).

They sounded terrific. Usually hymns, well-known chants in purple seasons, fancy harmony and extra instruments in white seasons. The cantors were unpaid. They were not always the best singers (some of the best were sanctuary shy). Sometimes the choir director cantored from the organ in the loft.

The people in the pews sang - except during parts of the white seasons which often sprang brand new music on them.

It did not take much money to provide respectable music for the parish which the faithful could sing.

The choir deteriorated for two reasons. First, as youth choir members aged, they were not encouraged to move to the adult choir, resulting in an aging youth choir which teens did not seem to want to join.

Second, the adult choir was encouraged to learn youth songs and perform concerts in the sanctuary. The youth songs were fast and full of trills and bridges. They were too difficult for the aging adult choir (and the faithful), plus stuffing 60 people into the sanctuary was a logistical problem.

The organist got fed up over being pushed to fix what wasn’t broken and found a better gig. The new choir director had lots of musical alphabet soup. The youth push continued and now the big choir’s gone and the people barely sing and the Mass is more like a performance.

That’s what I experienced. I do not know if it’s typical. I just know that in the parishes I’ve been in, more people are making money and less people are singing.

When I saw the changes at my first parish, everyone pushing the trend told me that the new GIRM was going to make all those changes official.

It did not. But the trend continues in my area and the new GIRM is now routinely dismissed or even mocked by the paid liturgical experts at my current parish.

The scorn would not bother me so much if it did not involve the holiest hour of our week.
 
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