The Power of Music

[Prodigal1984]

At my Church a woman sings on the altar at a podium as if it is some musical theatre. I get annoyed by it. I told my priest she needs to get back in the choir loft because she’s a distraction.

 

[otjm]

If you want to hear Gregorian chant done properly, look up The Benedictine Monks of Santo Domingo de Silos. you should be able to find them on Pandora. It is worth a listen.

 

[otjm]

We have a woman in our choir who has had serious voice training, and periodically she cantors. I have not heard one person say she is a distraction, but she doesn’t blow it out of the water, either; she just does it beautifully. There are one or two others with some voice training; again they don’t “blow out” the music; the rest are competent enough that they don’t need a tub to carry a note, let alone one with a lid. They are not into performance, TBTG.

 

[pnewton]

But not to anyone who outright tells you he is disobeying legitimate authority because of his own theories and preferences.

While I agree with you about the limitation that holy obedience holds us to, one cannot disobey guidelines. I don’t know what you are seeing, and if it is disobedience, that is a serious matter. For example, if the bishop established a list of acceptable hymns and it was ignored. However it is not disobedience to use hymns, and instruments other than organs. The Church believes in the principle of subsidiarity where local priests, who have canonical authority over the liturgy, can decide what is best for their diocese.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Wouldn’t it be nice if the dioceses could arrange vocal training, even a little, for cantors? And priests? Does anyone know if some dioceses do that?

 

[Entwhistler]

I have not heard complicated or intricate chant and, as I understand things, that would not be encouraged at regular Masses in light of the goal to assist the faithful to sing.

More complicated versions of chant do exist but if one can even read basic music notation, one can easily pick up on chant.

One could even choose to sing the chant “Recto Tono.” Basically chant with a total of three notes (or even one).

 

[Peeps]

The fact that threads keep starting on this topic indicates that some of the people don’t want it.

Yes, it indicates that some of the people don’t want it, but keep in mind that the people who are on CAF and who start threads about music are a very small subset of U.S. Catholics.

I am involved with the music program in my parish of 7000 people, and all indications are that the huge majority of the people, including the teenagers, like a variety of hymns, including the 1970s-2000 St. Louis Jesuits hymns.

One of our choir directors grew up in St. Louis, and LOVES these hymns! They are part of her childhood and Catholic upbringing. They certainly didn’t impair her faith, as she was planning to enter a convent while she was growing up and in school/college. Then she met the man that God had selected for her as a husband! Now she has a large family and loves her vocation as a married woman! Those St. Louis Jesuits’ hymns apparently didn’t lessen her zeal for the Lord and His Church.

There are a few people in the parish (and I do mean “a few”) who want more Latin and chant, and it has been tried at least twice in the last few years for several months at a time, but no one participates, and it’s really hard for the music director to keep chant going.

There are people who want more “rock”, but there are avenues in our city other than Mass for them to get involved with to hear more Christian rock music.

And there are people who love the organ, and people who hate it, and who love the tambourine in the folk Mass, and who hate it, and who love the piano and who hate it.

Interestingly, out of that huge parish, there are only five of us who play organ and/or piano and who are willing to step up and do it. My personal feeling is this–if someone doesn’t like the music, then step up and do it themselves, or seek out and bring in a musician who is trained and capable of doing the music that they like, and who is also a committed Catholic, and who is willing to play for NO PAY! Lotsa luck with that assignment.

 

[pnewton]

Ours has workshops. However, when dealing with volunteers, such offerings can seldom be taken advantage of, except perhaps by those living near them. We once hosted a chant seminar at our parish, which at least allowed those on our deanery to glean some training without forfeiting a day for travel.

 

[pnewton]

Interestingly, out of that huge parish, there are only five of us who play organ and/or piano and who are willing to step up and do it. My personal feeling is this–if someone doesn’t like the music, then step up and do it themselves, or seek out and bring in a musician who is trained and capable of doing the music that they like, and who is also a committed Catholic, and who is willing to play for NO PAY! Lotsa luck with that assignment.

This is the real problem, and may be part of what has driven the changes in Catholic music. We are at twelve hundred families, maybe a third your size, and have no one trained to play the piano. I play, but never had lessons, so am obviously limited to what I can do. One other guitarists has been paying for his own lessons, in his sixties, to help out. These are real world challenges.

 

[Peeps]

This is the real problem, and may be part of what has driven the changes in Catholic music. We are at twelve hundred families, maybe a third your size, and have no one trained to play the piano. I play, but never had lessons, so am obviously limited to what I can do. One other guitarists has been paying for his own lessons, in his sixties, to help out. These are real world challenges.

I’ve chaired a local music youth scholarship competition for over 10 years. The competition has been around for almost 60 years. When I first started, we had an average of about 60 pianists entered, from ages 3rd grade through high school senior. We have less than half of that number now, and all of our music teachers report that they simply don’t have many students compared to what they had just ten years ago. A lot of beginning students, but the majority quit within a year or two–not enough time to gain competence on piano to be able to play in church.

Organ teachers have even fewer students. For the last several years, the American Guild of Organists has reported steadily declining numbers of organ students enrolling in universities, and to play/conduct the kind of music that many Catholics want takes advanced training at the college level.

What gives? Lessons not affordable? Kids refuse to practice and parents refuse to make them practice?

Organ is especially difficult unless the child/teen has daily access to an organ.

I think a lot of the really good organists gravitate to the Big Cities in the U.S. where they will be paid a living wage, and have the opportunity to network and perform with a large community of musicians.

And I will stick to my guns from an earlier post–musicians who are gay (or some other alternative sexuality) want to be somewhere where they can up with each other and keep it a secret from the church if the church does not embrace LGBTQ-ness. Also, to be fair, many of the LGBTQ people feel afraid in small towns and small cities, and face some very real prejudice (or worse).

 

[Peeps]

At my Church a woman sings on the altar at a podium as if it is some musical theatre. I get annoyed by it. I told my priest she needs to get back in the choir loft because she’s a distraction.

Do you cantor?

 

[Peeps]

Wouldn’t it be nice if the dioceses could arrange vocal training, even a little, for cantors? And priests? Does anyone know if some dioceses do that?

Wonderful idea! I personally think that many people in the congregation would appreciate some basic vocal training so that they would feel more comfortable physically and otherwise singing around others.

I know that in our city, only one Catholic K-8th grade school has a genuine music teacher who knows how to train children and young teens to sing correctly (using a head voice, matching pitches, no “belting”, etc.). She also trains them to read music.

But all the rest of the Catholic kids don’t get this training unless they join the one secular choir in our city that provides the training–but that choir costs money to join.

It’s no wonder that so many Catholics grow up unable to sing and dislike singing because it hurts their throat, makes them breathless, etc.

So IMO, although hiring voice teachers to do workshops for cantors is an excellent idea (I WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT!), it would be even better if all Catholic schools hired a trained and certified music teacher who could raise up the children to be able to sing properly and read music. THAT would create a permanent “singing” population of parishioners.

Great idea, Loud-living-dogma!

 

[Prodigal1984]

Lector and Extraordinary minister of the Eucharist. l’d rather not have music than the way she does it.

 

[OraLabora]

Wouldn’t it be nice if the dioceses could arrange vocal training, even a little, for cantors? And priests? Does anyone know if some dioceses do that?

I don’t know that they have the resources to do that and instead they rely on volunteers of varying musical ability.

Our Gregorian schola got lucky. We are located near a Benedictine abbey that is the foremost source of Gregorian chant in Canada in the Church. Maybe the only source, for men. For women there is an abbey of the same congregation (Solesmes) on the outskirts of Montreal.

We were trained in fact, by their previous choirmaster (RIP). The current choirmaster graciously makes his time available to us on Saturdays every now and then and gives us a workshop, training ant tips.

Not everyone is so fortunate. The end result of that is giving Gregorian chant “pride of place” does not mean “in every place, all the time”. Forming a property trained schola takes time, effort, and if you’re located far from the resources, money to travel to the resources or pay resources to travel to you. Lip-synching YouTube videos is not going to cut it.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I play, but never had lessons, so am obviously limited to what I can do.

It is really easy to play a piano or probably any keyboard instrument. You can probably just play the melody and omit the harmony and nobody will notice. The difficult part is how to play multiple keys, but the melody usually requires one at a time. Even reading sheet music is a breeze if you use a program that can convert them into midi files. It won’t even take to long to transpose them since most songs in the hymnal are less than maybe 20 bars.

 

[Peeps]

It is really easy to play a piano or probably any instrument. You can probably just play the melody and omit the harmony and nobody will notice. The difficult part is how to play multiple keys, but the melody usually requires one at a time. Even reading sheet music is a breeze if you use a program that can convert them into midi files. It won’t even take to long to transpose them since most songs in the hymnal are less than maybe 20 bars.

Aww, man! You’re telling me I wasted my dad’s money, and wasted my childhood and teen years when I was thin and beautiful sitting at a piano practicing?!!

VanitasVaintatrum, do you play?

I’ll be honest, your comment is frankly…ridiculous.

I spent eleven years taking piano lessons, and I am a good pianist. Not a great one, but I’m definitely a good one and in demand in my area.

I worked my butt off. Throughout middle and high school, I routinely practiced 2 hours or more a night, and on weekends, I would sometimes spend four or more hours at my church (Protestant, and I had my own key) practicing on their grand piano.

When I got to college, I discovered that I was a slacker when it came to practicing. Many of the pianists went into the practice rooms at 12 noon, came out only for bathroom breaks, smoke breaks, and a class or two, but were not finished practicing until after midnight.

When I started taking organ lessons several years ago, I tried to practice at least an hour a day, and if I had the chance, I would spend a couple of hours at the organ. (It’s harder when you are older and your mom isn’t there to make you a supper and clean it up afterwards.)

I know that there are people who can sit down at an instrument and play “by ear”, and I admire them. But those people can’t read music and if someone hands them the accompaniment for a solo or asks them to accompany a musical theater production–they generally can’t do it. (Some can.)

And then there’s all the background about the various composers and musical styles that pianists (and organists) study. Playing a Bach prelude is a whole lot different than playing a Vierne prelude! A good music teacher will not only teach the techniques of playing the instrument, but also ground you in musical theory and music history and literature.

Anyway, nope, VanitasVanitatum, not buying it. Parents, your kidlets are going to have to do things the hard way–find a piano teacher with experience and credentials (if they lack either one, you might get away with paying less, and it might work out for your kid–but it might not!), and then spend time faithfully, every day (or almost) practicing, and eventually–finding the courage to try playing for church and probably making a lot of mistakes, but going back and doing it again and again until the butterflies leave them alone!

 

[pnewton]

It is really easy to play a piano or probably any instrument.

I didn’t want to be limited to guitar, so I taught myself by learning the chords first, then adding the melody. Yes, I play it like a percussion instrument (without the banging), but it works.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Yes, it indicates that some of the people don’t want it, but keep in mind that the people who are on CAF and who start threads about music are a very small subset of U.S. Catholics.

This is true. All online Catholic forums seem to skew pretty heavily towards those who are dissatisfied and usually towards those who are more traditional, looking for people who think like they do.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

I occasionally volunteer at a local Catholic high school orchestra. There are 5 or 6 kids there in a good year. As I walk down the hallways, I pass an enormous weight room full of Nautilus equipment, and other PE / athletic facilities.
Somehow there’s always money / space / priority / staff for football!
It’s funny because I believe some document of Vatican II called for the establishment of boys / men’s choirs and training for them. I personally have not seen that - - has anyone else?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

VanitasVaintatrum, do you play?

Yes and I can play alright. If I spent more time learning the notes I could play some songs. I was just talking about playing the melody and most songs in Mass are fairly simple so it doesn’t take too much work. Really it depends on how many notes you need to play at a time and the tempo.

I’m self taught so I’m not sure what they teach at piano lessons.