The Power of Music

[snarflemike]

The difference is that one is clearly sacred music with a long history of use in the Church for prayer that continues to the present day and one clearly comes straight from the treasury of the secular music of the 20th century. One is the kind that people who aren’t even Catholic buy for its meditative quality, and the other does not have a meditative effect on anybody.

Here is the first page of youtube comments I ran across on chant videos.

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I may not be religious, but i find this song to be a beautiful work of art

Gregorian chanting has been an inspiration for me to find my way back to the church and to faith

I am an athiest, but I really love these old Gregorian chants

Why do tears come to my eyes as I hear this?

I’m an atheist, and this is one of my favourite things to listen to.

I feel like I died and went to Heaven whilst listening to this.

I’m not religious but was raised RC and of such an age as to remember the mass and the novena chanted in Latin. I think the RCC banishing Latin from the liturgy was a mistake. The use of Latin connected the faithful with the Church past. And even though I’m not religious, there will be a dies irae. Of that I don’t harbor the slightest doubt. The human race will pay dearly for its thoughtlessness and frivolities.

This is one of the most beautiful pieces I have ever heard. If this doesn’t touch your spirit, nothing will.

I listen to this late at night hoping that one day I can be forgiven for all the ill I’ve done with my life.

Many would probably find me a strange one for being an Atheist and Liking this. There is a certain Serenity and peace to this kind of music. A Lovely Sense of Drama and wonderment to this genre of music which I can appreciate in spite of (Or if you’re the religious sort because) its religious origin.

wish churches would still chant in latin…This is so spiritual.

I’m an atheist but I like listening to this

I’m a muslim and I find these chants beautiful and touching to the soul

I always feel heaven and jesus so close listening to prayers like that

I’m 14 and I was born in the wrong generation. The real classics like Salve Regina make me wish we didn’t have the stupid pieces of crap music today. I wish I was a 1000s kid instead of a 2000s kid.

And who said teenagers these days can’t agree old music is good music ? Here I am in my early teens yet I’m really loving this.

I think it is sad people of my age can’t see the beauty in things like this song. I’m 15 and im also a devoted Catholic, but even if i werent i whould see an extreme beauty in this.

I’ve been an agnostic atheist for a decade now and even I hear the beauty of this.

I am mouslim but this sounds really beautiful

I have a weird feeling towards catholicism… I’m an ex-muslim … I hope one day I can visit a church I love those hymns it makes me feel so amazing

I’m an atheist, but I have to admit that this is quite beautiful.

 

[PetraG]

I hope one day I can visit a church I love those hymns it makes me feel so amazing

That visitor is going to be lucky indeed, if they come into a Catholic parish church and hear chant. Somebody needs to steer them towards a Benedictine or Cistercian monastery. Even then, most of the daily office is likely to be sung in the vernacular, not in Latin

I’m 14 and I was born in the wrong generation. The real classics like Salve Regina make me wish we didn’t have the stupid pieces of crap music today. I wish I was a 1000s kid instead of a 2000s kid.

At least one young person listening to this music really needs to get a grip, however. Life in the 11th century was no bed of roses. I can hardly start to number all the things they would think us crazy to give up: prenatal, postpartum and pediatric medical care being very high on the list, right along with an understanding of germ theory.

It is important not to romanticize what life was like for Catholics in the distant past or what results could be realized if Gregorian chant were more widely used in our liturgies again. It is beautful, it fosters a spirit of meditation, but it is not a magic bullet that is going to remake human nature or single-handedly fill the seminaries and convents. It is not going to guarantee liturgical perfection. I’m not saying that you implied that it would, but only saying we need to stay realistic about these things.

We also need to recognize that not everyone thinks this is the greatest music since the first note was written down. It is a very excellent genre of sacred music, but it shouldn’t be considered the only one anyone ought to ever want in their churches. As with all things musical, some people are simply not going to like it. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be widely played but rather that it shouldn’t be sold as the only thing that ought to be widely played.

 

[snarflemike]

Clearly our 14 year old is seeking a transcendence not found is his everyday life, and finds that transcendence in this music. It is almost as if encountering great sacred beauty can overwhelm one’s rational side. I contrast that with the woman in her 80s (very much a child of Vatican II) who complained that Church teachings on sacred music are trying to take the Church back “5000 years”.

 

[PetraG]

Clearly our 14 year old is seeking a transcendence not found is his everyday life, and finds that transcendence in this music. It is almost as if encountering great sacred beauty can overwhelm one’s rational side. I contrast that with the woman in her 80s (very much a child of Vatican II) who complained that Church teachings on sacred music are trying to take the Church back “5000 years”.

5000 years! I wish we had an LOL button, sometimes!!

There were people, however, who used to like every kind of music except church music. The problem is that while it may have been true that sacred music was ready for some other options, not every other option introduced was appropriate for worship.

Someone once gave me a tape she had recorded of “sacred music.”
She included “Imagine” by the Beatles!
Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us, only sky
Imagine all the people living for today…
and goes on to say
"Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace…

This was a Catholic’s idea of sacred music? Words fail…

 

[snarflemike]

My wife has been a Church musician since her early teens. The stories she tells! Songs picked right off the Top 40s. And she says nobody objected, and nobody told them they were wrong, and how the heck was she supposed to know any better at age 15? The attitude among all was “If it feels good, do it!”

 

[EmmaSowl]

That’s one of the questions in liturgical music – is it just to accompany action and movement during the liturgy, or does it deserve time for its own sake? What is the purpose of hymnody in the Roman rite?

Hymnody is a word I don’t know, so I’m ready to be enlightened. The little I do know seems to indicate that music mostly accompanies.

I know people who claim that the Meditation Hymn deserves it’s own time. I might agree if the ones sung in my parish had anything to do with the readings, but I find them mostly to be loud distractions from my attempts to give thanks after receiving.

Ironically, my current pastor (who does nothing to reign in the DL) actually mentioned in a homily that he argues with the DL over providing a moment of silence after Communion. He said it in a folksy, non-insulting way.

But I could not help but think, “What do you mean you argue? And he wins? Why don’t you tell him that if he doesn’t tow the line, his contract won’t be renewed? Who exactly is the boss here?”.

However, perhaps none of that has to do with hymnody. I hope to click on your link soon, but it’s taken me 2 weeks to get to replies, so if you feel like giving a basic crash course, I’m listening!

 

[EmmaSowl]

“If she asks for your head on a platter, I’m giving it to her.”

I’m emoji-challenged. Please picture a string of emojis laughing and crying.

Yippie! Found some emojis!

 

[EmmaSowl]

EDIT: Oops, already replied. After 2 weeks, I forget where I left off!

 

[EmmaSowl]

I believe Archbishop Sample is referring to the propers and ordinary of the Mass, he’s making the point that hymns are not an integral part of the Mass the way the actual texts are.

Which is why it’s so grating when texts are replaced with paraphrased music.

 

[EmmaSowl]

I think that church musicians have to be really careful not to prepare and present their music with a spirit of “Hah! I’m going to finally give this church some GOOD music!”

Yes! Yes! Yes!

We have to be subject to the authority of the church, be it Catholic or Protestant. If they say, “Play/sing whatever you like! We trust you!” then go ahead and give them your best. But if the pastor says, “We really don’t want chant here,” or “we would prefer traditional rather than contemporary,” then we need to submit to their authority.

The authority of the Church and the authority of the pastor are not the same thing. A pastor must obey the Church. It is when pastors think they are their own boss (or worse, when they think the DL is their boss) that the faithful suffer.

 

[EmmaSowl]

Few music leaders are trained in Gregorian Chant and few have the desire to be trained.

This is the heart of the problem. Exactly why aren’t music leaders trained in Gregorian chant and exactly why are we paying people who have no desire to be trained?

Also, the music used, has to be at a level where the congregation can sing along and be part of it. Like it was said, it’s not entertainment.

So, true. But chant is just about the easiest music to learn.

 

[EmmaSowl]

Other than Oregon Catholic Press, is there another that is approved by some bishop? The idea of bishop approved music is not relevant in my diocese. He does not have an approved list.

I have no idea how to tell what is officially approved. That in itself is extremely depressing. It should be easy for the faithful to know.

It seems to me that it is easy as all get out to find a bishop who will give approval to just about any song. My guess is that the poor saps in that bishop’s diocese must bow to his approval (God help and bless them). I do not think the faithful outside any one bishop’s diocese must bend the knee.

Yet, once any old bishop gives his stamp to a song (even if that song insults the guidance of the entire US Bishops in union with Rome), Catholic music companies feel free to release the song nationwide, giving the song a veneer of approval.

I do not know how the faithful can defend themselves against rogue bishops backed by wealthy music companies. But I do know that the confusion and silence on the issue is unchristian.

 

[EmmaSowl]

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

Who judges who has love? Who can see into the hearts of men?

Does someone who implies others have no love actually have love himself? It’s possible. It’s totally possible that someone making the horrific claim that someone else has no love is doing so out of love.

It’s also possible that someone who points out disobedience is full of love - because obedience is the fruit of love.

 

[EmmaSowl]

I will not give examples as the posts here can be judged on their own.

They certainly can be.

 

[EmmaSowl]

BTW, unless you’re in the music ministry, it’s not up to you what style they play

Excuse me, but it’s not up to music ministry to decide the style. It’s up to the bishops in union with Rome.

Your statement exactly demonstrates why so many of the faithful are frustrated. Music ministry has set itself up as some kind of authority when it is, in reality, a paid employee. Paid by our donations. Without the money from the faithful, exactly how would anyone in music ministry make a living?

 

[EmmaSowl]

The priest can’t force people to volunteer themselves for the music ministry and as my pastors have shown, they’re grateful for those who do.

They can’t force anyone to do it, but they can force people out. And in my diocese their gratitude with salaries is so generous, it would be no problem finding someone who was obedient - if the pastor actually wanted obedience.

Like I said earlier.

If you don’t like the style of music played at the Mass in your parish, learn how to play what you like then volunteer to lead the music ministry.

Like I replied earlier…

I replied with details of how I took your advice and was shunned. Why no comment?

Meanwhile, stop complaining, it’s unchristian and makes people feel bad

Does it make high-paid people feel bad? Gosh. That must be much worse than making the faithful dread Mass because of what they must endure to consume our Lord.

 

[EmmaSowl]

Who said anything about them being hostile?

If they are not hostile at your parish, you are lucky.

In my parish/diocese, they won’t even answer a direct question if it remotely challenges them. Our current DL just stares down the questioner as if the person was nothing.

 

[EmmaSowl]

This isn’t a popularity contest; that can’t work. Gregorian chant is among the riches of the faith that Catholics deserve to be exposed to, and by clergy and musicians instructed in how it is to be sung.

I wish I could give 1,000 likes to your entire post!!!

 

[EmmaSowl]

At our parish we are instituting the chants found directly in the missal. As well we have a monthly gregorian chant mass where it all is chanted by our schola. It has become quite a draw for people, especially 20-30 year olds.

I love this. I absolutely love this. Maybe I’ll make an attempt to suggest it to my pastor (prayers, please).

I love the missal. Truly love it. It clearly cites every body posture and exactly when to engage in it (no matter what hand gestures come from the sanctuary). It gives the alternate approved texts. It provides super simple chant - most of which the old fogey cradle Catholics know practically from memory, which this convert yearns for, and which (apparently) young people are drawn to.

Also want to note how unifying Latin chant can be in a nation full of different cultures. If you want a Vigil Mass where all the groups feel comfortable - you can go bilingual or trilingual or quadlingual and make the Mass a six-hour spectacular which satisfies no one or you can teach all cultures Latin chant and, every now and then, we can be a unified Catholic culture.

The best singers of Latin chant in my first parish were the Filipino immigrants.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Maybe wear earplugs a few times when you go to mass. Plenty of people have hearing disabilities and can’t hear a word that is said, let alone sung.

Then maybe listening to some music you don’t particularly care for won’t seem such a burden.