The Power of Music

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Peeps said:
some kind of black music (in recent years it’s rap and hip-hop),
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Peeps said:
Chant (the simple type that you describe from our Gather Hymnals) has been tried several times in my large parish in the “good section” of our city,
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I-I don’t know how to reply to these statements.

I regularly stand next to a black family at Mass. They have no problem with chant.

In fact, they are some of the better pew singers.

Again, chant is not too difficult for this one particular black family.

Do you think that this particular black family is an exception for being able to sing obediently?
 
Peeps said:
And it didn’t help that all the different accompanists accompanied the chant differently. Our music minister played the chant (melody with a chord background) on the organ. Another pianist created a contemporary-sounding accompaniment, which was actually rather pretty, but again, for chant? I alone gave a pitch and then dropped and allowed the cantor to lead the people because there are no accompaniments for the chants in our hymnal, and frankly, I think piano-accompanied chant is just too weird and incorrect and totally against the entire “feel” and 'spirit" of chant!!! It’s like accompanied cheers at a ball game–no one does that! So weird!
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This is definitely a confusing situation.

What do you think would’ve happened if everyone officially involved just simply chanted without frills?
 
Peeps said:
I know that the huge majority of people in our parish are younger and didn’t grow up with the Latin (especially all the converts), and so if the words were not readily available, and the pronunciation, since most people have not been taught how to pronounce Latin–and so they had no clue. And again, if the cantor didn’t know how to properly sing chant, they couldn’t understand the cantor and remember Latin phrases that they don’t understand and a chant “melody line” at the same time–it’s like patting your head and rubbing your stomach together–many people can’t do it.
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You mentioned “especially the converts” - I’m a convert. Baptized at the age of 32.

I can sing chant. It took me about one day to learn the Latin vowels. It is a simple matter of teaching. Plus, chant does not have to be in Latin. It can be in the vernacular.
Peeps said:
For the life of me, I don’t understand why the parish didn’t use the OVERHEAD SCREEN to make it easier for the people to learn!!! Oh, but that’s too PROTESTANT (dripping with sarcasm!).
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My parish uses overhead screens. They hide the statues of Mary and Joseph. They are too often on the wrong slide of lyrics. They do not give the notes.

I do not know if screens are Protestant or not. I do know that the way they are implemented at my parish is completely non-productive - i.e., they do not foster singing.

Worship aids, otoh, do help - as long as there is communication between the choir director and those assembling the printouts.

I have also seen worship aids be a complete waste of paper - but only when the choir doesn’t sing what’s in the worship aid.

It is all about parish communication. My experience has been that the Liturgical Committee does not work well with others.
 
pnewton said:
. Even the propers admit for substitution for pastoral reasons.
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I’m interested. Please elaborate.
pnewton said:
In his diocesan instructions, the very first point is active participation.
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That is one of the points I keep hammering at over and over in this thread:

There is little pew singing at my parish.
There is more pew singing when simple, old chants are sung.
 
Yup, I am a convert as well. Honestly I think the converts are much more open to the idea of Latin because they think “Yes, Latin in Catholic church, of course”. Whereas I think many cradle Catholics think “Latin?! No way – we don’t have to have Latin anymore because of Vatican II”. 🤣
 
snarflemike said:
Is there anybody reading this who thinks Gregorian Chant actually occupies “first place” (not “important place” but “first place”) in the Latin Rite liturgy?
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🤣🤣🤣

No, I do not think Gregorian chant occupies first place. In my parish, it hardly occupies a place at all.
 
Peeps said:
There’s an old saying: “Cut your cloak to fit your cloth.”

Lots of practical wisdom in that saying. Think about this saying when you are considering the music in your parishes and wondering why your parish doesn’t do ________ (fill in the blank with what you think Mass music should be).

Also consider the possibility that you could buy “new cloth” for your parish!
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Please, please, please explain your point here, because I’m too stupid to get it.

As to buying new cloth for the parish, I think you are under the misconception that everyone you are posting with has money to spare.

Some posters here may be as poor as church mice.
 
Yes that’s the sad thing. Out of the four slots for hymns in a four-hymn sandwich, you’d think maybe one slot could be taken up by chant. I think that would be a point where parishes could say, yes we do chant regularly. Or, yes we do chant every week. But I doubt if very many parishes even do that much chant.
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
Yup, I am a convert as well. Honestly I think the converts are much more open to the idea of Latin because they think “Yes, Latin in Catholic church, of course”. Whereas I think many cradle Catholics think “Latin?! No way – we don’t have to have Latin anymore because of Vatican II”. 🤣
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We met some Mormons who just assumed Catholic Masses were full of Latin and Chant, and were astonished when we told them the reality. They didn’t get it.
 
EmmaSowl said:
I regularly stand next to a black family at Mass. They have no problem with chant.

In fact, they are some of the better pew singers.

Again, chant is not too difficult for this one particular black family.

Do you think that this particular black family is an exception for being able to sing obediently?
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We entertained a priest from Uganda in our parish recently, here to raise money. He said his bishop loves a chanted Latin Mass.
 
Peeps said:
I wish our local parishes WOULD spend some money on parish music!

We have many churches that do not have an organist, so the organs are shut up and unused (and probably not maintained, either, which means that the first organist to play them may hear nothing but rushing air and perhaps have a bat or two fly out!).

We have many churches, including our Cathedral!–with no on-staff, paid music minister.
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I don’t know where you live (it is very different from where I live), but I will pray for your diocese.
Peeps said:
It’s no wonder places like Willowcreek and the Willowcreek church plants attract so many people–music is a major part of their budget and they hire the best professionals to plan and play the music!
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I’ve never heard of Willowcreek (guessing it’s Protestant). It sounds like Shepherd of the Hill in my area - a Protestant church which reminds me of past popular Protestant churches (like Calvary Chapel, which I no longer hear anything about).

The Protestant Mega-Musical Churches are fads. They end quickly. Why? Because no matter how professional the music is, it still cannot compete with secular music which has a better finger on the pulse of culture.
Peeps said:
We have many parishes who do not pay their organists or pianists, or who pay such a low fee that the musicians play at Protestant churches to make ends meet.
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So, rather than get a second job in a respectable field, these musicians choose to sing for those outside Christ’s church? Is there any wonder why many Catholics do not trust Catholic musicians?
Peeps said:
We have many parishes who don’t pay their music ministers (if they have one) to attend the national or even regional sacred music conferences, including the ones presented by Catholics!
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Why in the world would a parish pay for a music minister to attend a conference that wasn’t Catholic?
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
Whereas I think many cradle Catholics think “Latin?! No way – we don’t have to have Latin anymore because of Vatican II”. 🤣
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Do you think it’s possible that many cradle Catholics feel that being Catholic is uncool?

If so, that’s really, really, really sad.
 
snarflemike said:
We met some Mormons who just assumed Catholic Masses were full of Latin and Chant, and were astonished when we told them the reality. They didn’t get it.
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Amazing, isn’t it? More than a few times, I have encountered non-Catholic Christians who understand the Catholic faith/liturgy better than Catholics do.

I remember clearly how a Mormon co-worker convinced me of the absolute need to attend Sunday Mass.

She mentioned how she watched worship services at home, then quipped, “Of course, you can’t do that. You’re Catholic.”

It took me a few seconds to get her point. Basically, she was acknowledging the Eucharist.

Good on her! (May God bless her).
 
I wouldn’t be too hard on Catholic musicians who work at Protestant churches. Let’s say they’re possibly paying off student loans for a music degree (or two degrees perhaps), and maybe supporting a family. Should they get a good paying in their field (church music), probably waiting / hoping for a good Catholic music job to open up, or should they take a job outside their field, that probably doesn’t pay as well? I think there is a lot of cross-pollination between Catholic churches and Protestant churches in terms of organists.
 
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I understand that it can be hard to make a living (especially in my part of the country where prices are incredibly high).

I have a Phi Beta Kappa, magna cum laude, BA from UCLA in Motion Picture/Film Production.

Guess what? I couldn’t find work in the film industry and have spent my decades in customer service.

I did once get a volunteer job on a very professional low-budget film (contracts for the actors, etc.). But it turned out to be soft-porn (title: Romeo and Romeo).

It was amazingly professional; I saw no nudity on my one day. But when the day was over, I told the director I couldn’t continue. He said that I’d never have a paid job in Hollywood if I was picky. I said that was okay.

Some lines shouldn’t be crossed, no matter the financial downfall (I have a 119 IQ, but have never made more than $40,000 in one year - and I’m old).

Yes, of course, there may be Catholic musicians who are in desperate straights. My heart goes out to them. But I would still urge them to take any possible job in the world other than that of legitimizing Protestant worship.
 
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