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papalsupporter
Guest
AMEN! I agree with everything you said brother!
- Status
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papalsupporter
Guest
A possible way to do it I would think would be to tell the new vocation that, IF THEY CHOOSE, the superiors can hold the letters that they get from the people they indicate they don’t want hear from; and they can hold those letters UNOPENED, but they can open them if the vocation REQUESTS IT.
Then at a later date they can give these letters to the new vocation when he or she feels that they are ready to read them. That way, control over the mail is given to the person and they are shown that the order is there to support and help them according to THEIR needs and no letters are lost.
The new vocation would need to know that sometimes it is better this way so as to not be disturbed in the discernment process by outsiders. But they should be given the opportunity to REQUEST this service, not have it forced on them. Not every person will need their mail screened as there is nothing that would be a threat there. This is just an idea I had about a way to do it.
Then at a later date they can give these letters to the new vocation when he or she feels that they are ready to read them. That way, control over the mail is given to the person and they are shown that the order is there to support and help them according to THEIR needs and no letters are lost.
The new vocation would need to know that sometimes it is better this way so as to not be disturbed in the discernment process by outsiders. But they should be given the opportunity to REQUEST this service, not have it forced on them. Not every person will need their mail screened as there is nothing that would be a threat there. This is just an idea I had about a way to do it.
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Cristiano
Guest
My wife does that with my mail, and I have been told that I am fine with it.umm… so what do you mean it works in your family? Do you open your wife or husbands mail?
Do you log into his or her email accounts and have their passwords and read all their emails before they can read them?
Just curious cause that is definitely not how it works in my family…
I have an agreement with my son that I can do that with his email or browsing history. That is a condition for him to have access to the web.
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Cristiano
Guest
This goes against the idea of “one flesh”
That it is true if they live outside the house.
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LilyM
Guest
There’s no force involved here.A possible way to do it I would think would be to tell the new vocation that, IF THEY CHOOSE, the superiors can hold the letters that they get from the people they indicate they don’t want hear from; and they can hold those letters UNOPENED, but they can open them if the vocation REQUESTS IT.
Then at a later date they can give these letters to the new vocation when he or she feels that they are ready to read them. That way, control over the mail is given to the person and they are shown that the order is there to support and help them according to THEIR needs and no letters are lost.
The new vocation would need to know that sometimes it is better this way so as to not be disturbed in the discernment process by outsiders. But they should be given the opportunity to REQUEST this service, not have it forced on them. Not every person will need their mail screened as there is nothing that would be a threat there. This is just an idea I had about a way to do it.
It’s part of the way the order is run, and doubtless is well explained to the vocations before they enter or during their novitiate. That period is the time for them to decide that the way things are run suits them or not, and to conform themselves to its practices and rules, or not. There are plenty of orders out there, if they wish, nd they’re free to seek another order that doesn’t screen the candidates’ mail!
You become part of a community because you either find their rules and regulations good, or at least can live with them. Like I said, the candidate conforms themself to the order and not the other way around.
Imagine approaching an order that was Franciscan as opposed to Benedictine or a teaching order as opposed to a nursing order, and saying ‘look, I know you’re a Franciscan order, but my spirituality is more Benedictine - do you mind if I don’t bother learning about St Francis or his spirituality, even though he is the spiritual father of the order, because he really does nothing for me?’
Or ‘look, I know you’re a teaching order, that’s all you do, but I really find teaching a drag - would you mind treating me as a special case and giving me permission to do nursing, even though none of the other nuns do?’
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papalsupporter
Guest
Sorry buddy but that is just your interpretation. So basically it only goes against your personal idea of “one flesh.”
Also people can set whatever rules they want for their children inside their house. Again, its just your opinion over mine. Doesn’t make yours better than mine nor vice versa. That’s why orders call it a “custom.” There is no Church doctrine that says “one flesh” means that you have to let your spouse open your mail. That being said, if you wish to respond to this, then know that I am dropping the issue cause it has nothing to do with this thread.
Again, I agree that if someone doesn’t like the custom of screening letters then they can just go somewhere else. My only stance is that the orders MUST explain this well to the person discerning before they start living there. I know that most do or maybe even all, but I know that we are all human and it could happen that someone can find themselves in an order and then find out about this custom after wards. As long as it is well explained and the person agrees then all is good.
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papalsupporter
Guest
If that works for you then God bless you!My wife does that with my mail, and I have been told that I am fine with it.
I have an agreement with my son that I can do that with his email or browsing history. That is a condition for him to have access to the web.
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iamMyBeloveds
Guest
J.M.+J.T.
I know the community I will soon be joining doesn’t censor mail. I’m glad about this.
When I asked one of my Superiors, she said that there are much better things that they and I can be doing to grow in holiness around the convent rather than by constantly censoring my mail. I tend to agree with that.
I was told, however, that the only time they would start to wonder about mail is if I continue to get letters frequently (ie: every week) from a male that is not within my family. She explained that it would be a bit suspicious to have a guy writing me every week. I totally agree with that. They would then ask me to write this individual and explain to them to not write as frequently. I wouldn’t want to receive this type of mail so frequently anyway, as it might tend to incite other interests that would endanger my vocation. I already have a fiancee.
Jesus Christ! And He can send me all the “love letters” He likes!
I passed all of the psychological testing, did a great deal of paperwork, wrote two autobiographies (one for the psychologist and one for the order) and I will be living with my Sisters 24/7. I believe that they will know most everything about me already without reading my mail.
I understand why some communities do censor mail, and I can appreciate differences of opinion on the matter. I’m just glad my order doesn’t do this.
I know the community I will soon be joining doesn’t censor mail. I’m glad about this.
When I asked one of my Superiors, she said that there are much better things that they and I can be doing to grow in holiness around the convent rather than by constantly censoring my mail. I tend to agree with that.
I was told, however, that the only time they would start to wonder about mail is if I continue to get letters frequently (ie: every week) from a male that is not within my family. She explained that it would be a bit suspicious to have a guy writing me every week. I totally agree with that. They would then ask me to write this individual and explain to them to not write as frequently. I wouldn’t want to receive this type of mail so frequently anyway, as it might tend to incite other interests that would endanger my vocation. I already have a fiancee.
Jesus Christ! And He can send me all the “love letters” He likes!I passed all of the psychological testing, did a great deal of paperwork, wrote two autobiographies (one for the psychologist and one for the order) and I will be living with my Sisters 24/7. I believe that they will know most everything about me already without reading my mail.
I understand why some communities do censor mail, and I can appreciate differences of opinion on the matter. I’m just glad my order doesn’t do this.
C
CarmeliteGirl25
Guest
I pray that our communities (since they are the same order) are alike in this aspect. Although I have nothing to hide, and I have no men chasing after me (except the “Hound of Heaven”J.M.+J.T.
I know the community I will soon be joining doesn’t censor mail. I’m glad about this.
When I asked one of my Superiors, she said that there are much better things that they and I can be doing to grow in holiness around the convent rather than by constantly censoring my mail. I tend to agree with that.
I was told, however, that the only time they would start to wonder about mail is if I continue to get letters frequently (ie: every week) from a male that is not within my family. She explained that it would be a bit suspicious to have a guy writing me every week. I totally agree with that. They would then ask me to write this individual and explain to them to not write as frequently. I wouldn’t want to receive this type of mail so frequently anyway, as it might tend to incite other interests that would endanger my vocation. I already have a fiancee.
I passed all of the psychological testing, did a great deal of paperwork, wrote two autobiographies (one for the psychologist and one for the order) and I will be living with my Sisters 24/7. I believe that they will know most everything about me already without reading my mail.
I understand why some communities do censor mail, and I can appreciate differences of opinion on the matter. I’m just glad my order doesn’t do this.
), I would feel awkward with the Superiors reading my mail.I wonder if I will have to write an autobiography for my application??
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iamMyBeloveds
Guest
J.M.+J.T.I wonder if I will have to write an autobiography for my application??
You might have to write one. I know that the Central Province has their applicants hand-write one. I actually enjoyed writing it. It was a wonderful and prayerful reflection on how your entire life has led up to your vocation. I hope you get to write one!
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Lilllabettt
Guest
There are many things about religious life that a lay person may find difficult to understand. This practice is one of those things. It offends the modern lay person’s sense of a “right to privacy,” so the first instinct is to frown upon it.
The OP does not need to post information about specific groups that practice it. Many solid, traditional religious communities do. And they are not cults.
I really have no desire to go into the nitty gritty of why some communities have chosen to continue this practice, since as lay people, it is none of our business.
I will point out one thing, however: regarding formation, it can be extremely useful. Young people, especially today’s young people, usually must be taught about religious decorum; that is, how to speak, write, eat, walk, practice discretion, and behave in a manner becoming of a religious.
A letter full of slang, or silly immature language, or which divulges private information about community members, or simply contains misspellings, can be a really wonderful opportunity for correction to take place.
I have no doubt that some groups may use this practice in an unhealthy way. But people who enter a religious community are not children. If something goes on which alarms them, they must use their critical thinking skills and make adult decisions about whether or not the situation is a healthy one.
The OP does not need to post information about specific groups that practice it. Many solid, traditional religious communities do. And they are not cults.
I really have no desire to go into the nitty gritty of why some communities have chosen to continue this practice, since as lay people, it is none of our business.
I will point out one thing, however: regarding formation, it can be extremely useful. Young people, especially today’s young people, usually must be taught about religious decorum; that is, how to speak, write, eat, walk, practice discretion, and behave in a manner becoming of a religious.
A letter full of slang, or silly immature language, or which divulges private information about community members, or simply contains misspellings, can be a really wonderful opportunity for correction to take place.
I have no doubt that some groups may use this practice in an unhealthy way. But people who enter a religious community are not children. If something goes on which alarms them, they must use their critical thinking skills and make adult decisions about whether or not the situation is a healthy one.
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CarmeliteGirl25
Guest
Maybe I should get started, huh?J.M.+J.T.
You might have to write one. I know that the Central Province has their applicants hand-write one. I actually enjoyed writing it. It was a wonderful and prayerful reflection on how your entire life has led up to your vocation. I hope you get to write one!
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papalsupporter
Guest
Hey good luck to you! I pray all goes well for youJ.M.+J.T.
I know the community I will soon be joining doesn’t censor mail. I’m glad about this.
When I asked one of my Superiors, she said that there are much better things that they and I can be doing to grow in holiness around the convent rather than by constantly censoring my mail. I tend to agree with that.
I was told, however, that the only time they would start to wonder about mail is if I continue to get letters frequently (ie: every week) from a male that is not within my family. She explained that it would be a bit suspicious to have a guy writing me every week. I totally agree with that. They would then ask me to write this individual and explain to them to not write as frequently. I wouldn’t want to receive this type of mail so frequently anyway, as it might tend to incite other interests that would endanger my vocation. I already have a fiancee.
I passed all of the psychological testing, did a great deal of paperwork, wrote two autobiographies (one for the psychologist and one for the order) and I will be living with my Sisters 24/7. I believe that they will know most everything about me already without reading my mail.
I understand why some communities do censor mail, and I can appreciate differences of opinion on the matter. I’m just glad my order doesn’t do this.
S
Shin
Guest
When it’s a good order or local chapter there is no problem with it. When it’s bad – it’s bad, so everything is going to go badly including this.
The purpose of religious orders is generally to practice separation from the world – this is part of it. Separation from the world -is a good thing-. One cannot say enough good things about it.
Screening mail or censorship of any kind is viewed as a bad thing generally by the world – but of course -the world- is one of the three great enemies of the Church.
Censorship -done right- is one of the necessities of a Catholic society in general. Without it, it could not function properly. Censorship is a key practice for avoiding ‘the occasion of sin.’ and should be practiced habitually for one’s own sake, and for the sake of others by discriminating what is good for people and bad for people and not giving them what would be harmful.
‘Remember, my sisters, that if we are not good we are much more to blame than others. What I earnestly beg of you is that anyone who knows she will be unable to follow our customs will say so [before she is professed]: there are other convents in which the Lord is also well served and she should not remain here and disturb these few of us whom His Majesty has brought together *for His service. *In other convents nuns are free to have the pleasure of seeing their relatives, whereas here, if relatives are ever admitted, it is only for their own pleasure. A nun who [very much] wishes to see her relatives in order to please herself, and does not get tired of them after the second visit, must, unless they are spiritual persons and do her soul some good, consider herself imperfect and realize that she is neither detached nor healthy, and will have no freedom of spirit or perfect peace. She needs a physician – and I consider that if this desire does not leave her, and she is not cured, she is not intended for this house. The best remedy, I think, is that she should not see her relatives again until she feels free in spirit and has obtained this freedom from God by many prayers. When she looks upon such visits as crosses, let her receive them by all means, for then they will do the visitors good and herself no harm. But if she is fond of the visitors, if their troubles are a great distress to her and if she delights in listening to the stories which they tell her about the world, she may be sure that she will do herself harm and do them no good.’
St. Teresa of Jesus
The purpose of religious orders is generally to practice separation from the world – this is part of it. Separation from the world -is a good thing-. One cannot say enough good things about it.
Screening mail or censorship of any kind is viewed as a bad thing generally by the world – but of course -the world- is one of the three great enemies of the Church.
Censorship -done right- is one of the necessities of a Catholic society in general. Without it, it could not function properly. Censorship is a key practice for avoiding ‘the occasion of sin.’ and should be practiced habitually for one’s own sake, and for the sake of others by discriminating what is good for people and bad for people and not giving them what would be harmful.
‘Remember, my sisters, that if we are not good we are much more to blame than others. What I earnestly beg of you is that anyone who knows she will be unable to follow our customs will say so [before she is professed]: there are other convents in which the Lord is also well served and she should not remain here and disturb these few of us whom His Majesty has brought together *for His service. *In other convents nuns are free to have the pleasure of seeing their relatives, whereas here, if relatives are ever admitted, it is only for their own pleasure. A nun who [very much] wishes to see her relatives in order to please herself, and does not get tired of them after the second visit, must, unless they are spiritual persons and do her soul some good, consider herself imperfect and realize that she is neither detached nor healthy, and will have no freedom of spirit or perfect peace. She needs a physician – and I consider that if this desire does not leave her, and she is not cured, she is not intended for this house. The best remedy, I think, is that she should not see her relatives again until she feels free in spirit and has obtained this freedom from God by many prayers. When she looks upon such visits as crosses, let her receive them by all means, for then they will do the visitors good and herself no harm. But if she is fond of the visitors, if their troubles are a great distress to her and if she delights in listening to the stories which they tell her about the world, she may be sure that she will do herself harm and do them no good.’
St. Teresa of Jesus
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Beachcomber
Guest
Perhaps they will analyze the handwriting for further clues to your psyche. I don’t mean this, though, as a negative thing. There have been times past when there wasn’t enough evaluation of candidates and truly unsuitable people ended up in religious life. If I were called to religious life, I’d be glad to be transparent and open with the community.J.M.+J.T.
You might have to write one. I know that the Central Province has their applicants hand-write one. I actually enjoyed writing it. It was a wonderful and prayerful reflection on how your entire life has led up to your vocation. I hope you get to write one!
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iamMyBeloveds
Guest
This is such an interesting thought! That never even came to my mind during the application process.
So true…I have heard of this happening in the past many times. I think it’s wonderful that many orders today screen candidates so thoroughly.
A wonderful and holy mindset…Are you discerning? I’ll say a prayer for you!
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Cristiano
Guest
I think that they simply decided to use the same procedure that the USCCB mandates for applicants to the priesthood and the diaconate. They just want to make sure that you are the one writing it. usually there is a length limit (500 words??)
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Beachcomber
Guest
Now that’s a good, common sense reason. I didn’t know about that. Thanks for explaining.
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Beachcomber
Guest
No, I’m not discerning. I’ve been happily together with Mr Beachcomber 22 years last month. But I’ll take any prayers I can get.This is such an interesting thought! That never even came to my mind during the application process.
So true…I have heard of this happening in the past many times. I think it’s wonderful that many orders today screen candidates so thoroughly.
A wonderful and holy mindset…Are you discerning? I’ll say a prayer for you!
W
Wampa
Guest
I am reading the book on Opus Dei by John Allen (of National Catholic Reporter - not exactly an apologist for Opus Dei) and he speaks to this topic:
[Talking about how Opus Dei has changed for the better in response to criticism of ex-members]:
It may be that [critical ex-members] are accurately describing their experiences from the times and places they were in Opus Dei, and in the meantime, Opus Dei has changed. In a number of cases Opus Dei readily concedes this sort of evolution - as, for example, in the case of “screening” the mail of numeraries, which was once standard practice in Opus Dei centers but has fallen into disuse in the age of cellular phones, SMS, and e-mail."
- Status