The Priest as Another "Christ"?

[Safia]

I’ve seen this quote, from John O’Brien, quoted in many Protestant blogs about the “blasphemy” of Roman Catholicism.

Can someone explain to me why it isn’t (especially that in italics)? I know what the author is trying to say – or, really, what he is saying – but I’m not sure how to contextualize it.

When the priest announces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man. It is a power greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim.

Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary. While the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of mannot once but a thousand times!*** The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priests command.***

Of what sublime dignity is the office of the Christian priest who is thus privileged to act as the ambassador and the vice-gerent of Christ on earth! He continues the essential ministry of Christ: he teaches the faithful with the authority of Christ, he pardons the penitent sinner with the power of Christ, he offers up again the same sacrifice of adoration and atonement which Christ offered on Calvary. No wonder that the name which spiritual writers are especially fond of applying to the priest is that of alter Christus. For the priest is and should be another Christ.

 

[White_Peony]

the priest represents Christ. Like an ambassador. Like 2 Corinthians 5:20

 

[onemangang]

I got this off of vocationboom.com

vocationboom.com/priesthood

A Catholic priest is a man who has been called by God to live in persona Christi – in the person of Christ. In simple terms, that means that when a man is ordained a priest, he receives a permanent mark on his soul – similar to the mark we all receive at baptism – that changes him forever and makes it possible for him to perform certain actions that otherwise only Jesus could perform. A priest’s primary purpose is to offer the Sacrifice of the Mass, and to feed God’s people with the Body and Blood of Jesus in the Eucharist, which the Church has always understood to be the main way that Christ’s death on the Cross is made available to people. Only a validly ordained priest can give this great gift to the world.

What this means is truly amazing. Because of the gift of holy orders – the priesthood – a man’s very soul is changed and he is made like Jesus in a way that someone who is not ordained can never experience. Jesus is God. And, as God, He is able to share His power with those men he calls to the priesthood, allowing them to do for God’s people what Jesus Himself does: feed us with His Body and Blood, forgive our sins, and more.

St. John Vianney, the holy priest whom the Church now calls the patron saint of all priests, once said, “The priest will not understand the greatness of his office until he is in heaven. If he understood it on earth, he would die, not of fear, but of love.” The point he is making is that what happens when a man is ordained to the priesthood is that he becomes so much like Jesus, it’s hard for our minds and hearts to really understand it. And when a priest performs his ministry, he is doing it in the name and with the divine power of Jesus. What an awesome reality the priesthood is!

Everyone is called to grow closer to God, especially a priest. So, he must spend time in prayer. This is especially important because the Church has always taught that a priest is “a priest forever.” Once someone is ordained, he will always be a priest, even after he dies.

Today, the world needs good priests, just like it always has. Do you think God is calling you to live the wonderful life of a priest? If so, be sure you pray and ask Him to help you say “yes!”

 

[Nita]

I’ve seen this quote, from John O’Brien, quoted in many Protestant blogs about the “blasphemy” of Roman Catholicism.

Can someone explain to me why it isn’t (especially that in italics)? I know what the author is trying to say – or, really, what he is saying – but I’m not sure how to contextualize it.

Quote:
When the priest announces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man. It is a power greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim.

I underlined what I consider a critical sentence for a proper understanding of Fr. O’Brien’s words. Note that he compares the role of the priest to the role of Mary. The “type” of role is comparable. In other words, they are a human agents through which Christ becomes present tangibly here on earth. In both cases, it occurs by God’s power as a consequence of their spoken words. (Mary’s “Let it be done…” and the priest’s “This is My Body; This is My Blood”). He says the priest’s power can be considered greater because it occurs many times instead of only once.

That transubstantiation takes place when the priest pronounces the words of consecration is due to the fact that Christ instituted the power of those words when spoken by Him at the Last Supper, and then provided for their continuing power to be present when spoken by an ordained priest. You might say He bound Himself to it when He told them to “Do this…”

 

[Mintaka]

First off, every Christian in the world is another Christ, so it’s scarcely blasphemy.

Second, if the priest is only following the command to “Do this,” it’s the priest obeying Jesus and Jesus (our high priest) working with the priest. Again, nothing blasphemous about doing God’s will and God responding according to His New Covenant in His Blood.

But considering that no human can do anything without God participating, or even exist without God creating and sustaining him, this is like saying that humans conjure God to do their will by planting seeds and expecting that plants will probably come up if God wills it, or by the evil act of loving their neighbor as themselves, or gathering two or more together in His Name and then praying.

OOooooooOOOOh! EEEEEvil!

If you’re not going to trust and rely on any of God’s promises, if expecting God to fulfill His own Word is coercing the Almighty… well, you might as well just go home and worship chopped liver, rather than continuing to pretend to be a Christian.

 

[Safia]

All of that articulates what I was thinking – thank you.

How do we explain this:

---

Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priests command.

---

Thanks!

 

[EricFilmer]

How do we explain this:

Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priests command.

Let’s walk through that section, piece by piece:

“Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary.”

In the ministry of the sacraments in the Catholic Church, Christ is the High Priest who is active, with the ordained priest serving as his visible representative. Therefore, the “power” we are talking about is not the power of the priest, but the power of Christ, which is the greatest power imaginable.

Moreover, exactly what “power” does O’Brien ascribe to Mary? The power she exhibited was using her freewill to be obedient to God’s will, but the power by which she conceived the Messiah was the power of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, when comparing the “power” of a priest with the “power” of Mary, what one is actually examining is the power of God (and therefore not really a power of the priest or Mary), so it is erroneous to consider one the power associated with one of these situations to be “greater” than the other.

“While the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man not once but a thousand times!”

This is a “straw man” fallacy because this is not a claim that the Catholic Church actually makes. In essence, O’Brien’s position is derived from the erroneous claim that the Church teaches that, in the various Masses, Christ is re-sacrificed over and over. The correct understanding of Catholic teaching is that Calvary is an eternal sacrifice, a divine event, and therefore transcends time and space. The Mass allows the congregation to enter into the single sacrifice of Calvary and participate in it (through the power of Christ).

“The priest speaks…”

The priest speaks the Words of Institution given to the Church by Christ!

“…and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priests command.”

First of all, the priest is not “commanding” God, but rather obeying the *command of God, *“Do this in memory of me.”

Secondly, basically what is happening in the Mass is that Jesus is making himself present to the congregation. Does John O’Brien pray to Jesus alongside his family or other members of the church he attends? I’m certainly willing to think he does. In light of that, consider this gospel passage:

“For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20, RSV)

So when O’Brien gathers with others in the name of Jesus, Jesus makes himself present to them. Now, using the exact same logic O’Brien utilized in his criticism of the Catholic Mass, I can make the following statement: “…and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to O’Brien’s command.”

One again, in both cases no one is really commanding God, but following the instructions Jesus gave us for him to be present to us in special ways. But if O’Brien wants to twist this to make it sound like a priest is considered a kind of warlock who summons supernatural entities, including the Almighty God himself, then one could apply the same sort of criticism to O’Brien himself.

 

[TimothyH]

It’s not blasphemy because it it true.

At the epliclisis, the priest calls down the Holy Spirit…

Make holy, therefore, these gifts, we pray, by sending down your Spirit upon them like the dewfall, so that they may become for us the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

…and the Holy Spirt does exactly that, at the priest’s command.

Remember that Christ bowed his head and was obedient to a woman, his Mother Mary, and to his father Joseph.

He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; (Luke 2:51)

-Tim-

 

[LoyalChristian]

No.

 

[Safia]

Thanks much! That’s all perfect help.

 

[Lilsheep88]

the priest represents Christ. Like an ambassador. Like 2 Corinthians 5:20

Intriguing… but what about in confession… the priest actually becomes Jesus I believe.

 

[TimothyH]

Intriguing… but what about in confession… the priest actually becomes Jesus I believe.

The priest does not become Jesus. The priest acts in the person of Christ.

The priest absolves you of sin himself. As an ordained minister in Christ’s Kingdom, the priest’s authority comes from Christ, but he himself absolves you of sin. He does this not because he is Jesus, but because he has the authority of Jesus given to him.

-Tim-