The Pro Choice Catholic

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Pro Choice Catholic ? There is no such animal.
Well now. There is the whole problem.

When " false Catholics " like Joe Biden go up to Communion its a scandal and a sacrilege. Anyone who votes for him, empowers him do the his evil in the world and is as guilty of murder as he is.

Anyone who votes for a Pro Choice candidate has hired the hit man. Both are guilty of the same crime.
 
Well now. There is the whole problem.

When " false Catholics " like Joe Biden go up to Communion its a scandal and a sacrilege. Anyone who votes for him, empowers him do the his evil in the world and is as guilty of murder as he is.

Anyone who votes for a Pro Choice candidate has hired the hit man. Both are guilty of the same crime.
Well said. I can say I’ve now met another fellow Catholic 👍

Pleasure is mine 🙂
 
As a note, a baptized Catholic is always Catholic, since the character imposed on the Soul at Baptism in indelible.

That doesn’t mean they will go to Heaven, but if they go to Hell, they essentially have a stamp on their forehead saying that they at one time could have achieved salvation, but now chose to reject it.
 
As a note, a baptized Catholic is always Catholic, since the character imposed on the Soul at Baptism in indelible.
Agreed.
That doesn’t mean they will go to Heaven, but if they go to Hell, they essentially have a stamp on their forehead saying that they at one time could have achieved salvation, but now chose to reject it.
Never thought of it that way before. Source for that? (I understand that it pretty much follows implicitly from (1) above.)

This would seem to suggest that fallen Christians will have it worse in the abode of the damned.
 
Never thought of it that way before. Source for that? (I understand that it pretty much follows implicitly from (1) above.)

This would seem to suggest that fallen Christians will have it worse in the abode of the damned.
No, I came up with that myself. Obviously it’s not doctrine or anything, but meant to portray the sadness of once having the Faith and then throwing it a way.
 
Well now. There is the whole problem.

When " false Catholics " like Joe Biden go up to Communion its a scandal and a sacrilege. Anyone who votes for him, empowers him do the his evil in the world and is as guilty of murder as he is.

Anyone who votes for a Pro Choice candidate has hired the hit man. Both are guilty of the same crime.
Joe Biden does not receive Holy Communion. I believe it is his own choice to abstain.

I disagree with almost everything that Sen. Biden stands for, but I have to admit, I respect him for respecting the Church and the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.
 
Here is what it would accomplish. It would prevent the pro abortion person from living in denial and bring into sharp focus what they really are. False Catholics, hypocrites and it seems to me, according to the definition in Wikapedia, a hieratic, if they publicly defend Pro Choice.
He should.

They should not.

Lets try and see what happins.

Your wrong.

]

Wrong again.

Okay, then. This thing about a lay person labeling another Christian a hieratic. That’s pretty good. Don’t witness for your faith, its unchristian ? Sure, no problem. Take the easy way out and just go about your business. Leave it to someone else? Look the other way?

I believe that Christians, especially Catholic Christians, should be a constant witness for Jesus, and that we should condemn sin publicly.

But I don’t believe that we as Catholic laypeople have the authority to call a person a “heretic.”

We can certainly say that their beliefs are heretical and we can privately and publicly denounce heretical beliefs.

But we can’t call another person a heretic.

I believe that only the Church has the authority to label someone a “heretic.”

Am I correct? I would really appreciate it if someone would clarify this, because if I am incorrect, then I will consider changing my approach when I speak with so-called “pro-choice Catholics.”

We can’t justify disobedience to our Church even though it seems right to us. There is a whole section of the Catechism that discusses motives, and I believe that the conclusion was that we are still guilty of sin, even if our motives are good. If we do not have the authority to pronounce that someone is a heretic, then we can’t go ahead and do it out of a sincere desire to “witness” or “stand against grave sin.”
 
Joe Biden does not receive Holy Communion. I believe it is his own choice to abstain.
Okay, I understood he did, but thats just one sentance of the quote.

So you respect a guy like that because he does not go up. I mean, big deal. What about the evil work of his hands? I cant respect him.
 
Heresy would be regards the Church’s teachings, so if a Catholic publically stated he believed abortion was okay, than he would be committing heresy. But if a Catholic publically states he is for a pro-choice politician, he isn’t a heretic - but he would be a very bad Catholic. However, if that Catholic voted for the pro-choice politican, than he would be a heretic.
It would be a mortal sin.
 
But I don’t believe that we as Catholic laypeople have the authority to call a person a “heretic.”

We can certainly say that their beliefs are heretical and we can privately and publicly denounce heretical beliefs.

But we can’t call another person a heretic.

I believe that only the Church has the authority to label someone a “heretic.”

Am I correct? I would really appreciate it if someone would clarify this, because if I am incorrect, then I will consider changing my approach when I speak with so-called “pro-choice Catholics.”

We can’t justify disobedience to our Church even though it seems right to us. There is a whole section of the Catechism that discusses motives, and I believe that the conclusion was that we are still guilty of sin, even if our motives are good. If we do not have the authority to pronounce that someone is a heretic, then we can’t go ahead and do it out of a sincere desire to “witness” or “stand against grave sin.”
I don’t think you are actually. Heretic is defined as “a person who expresses or acts on opinions considered to be heresy”, while heresy is defined as “a “theological or religious opinion or doctrine maintained in opposition, or held to be contrary, to the Roman Catholic or Orthodox doctrine of the Christian Church, or, by extension, to that of any church, creed, or religious system, considered as orthodox.”” It is a fact that the authoritative position of the Church on abortion is that it is wrong, hence anyone who claims to be a Catholic and maintains an opinion or doctrine in opposition to that, i.e. that abortion is fine, people should have a choice etc, are by definition heretics.

Your logic in this is flawed, we are all sinners, for example, because we all engage in sin and it is perfectly legitimate to state that fact. But by your logic we can denounce that sin but not acknowledge the fact that we are all sinners. We are all guilty of sin, we are all sinners but that doesn’t prevent us from seeing the sins which others are committing and applying the correct term. For example would you have the same scruples about calling someone a murderer or a rapist? It is after all the same principal, both terms denote someone who has committed a sin, in the first murder and the second rape. But you don’t expect us to wait for the Church to declare them as such.

In short we don’t need to wait for the Church to issue a decree stating the someone has advocated a heretical belief because by their adherence to views in opposition to the teachings of the Church they have already made themselves heretics.
 
Joe Biden does not receive Holy Communion. I believe it is his own choice to abstain.

I disagree with almost everything that Sen. Biden stands for, but I have to admit, I respect him for respecting the Church and the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.
What makes you say this?

Is this a recent action probably due to the pressure from the Bishop’s? As recent as Sept. 8th he was seen receiving communion.

cuatower.com/2008/09/09/bishop-refuses-communion-for-dem-vp-candidate-biden/
 
Joe Biden does not receive Holy Communion. I believe it is his own choice to abstain.

I disagree with almost everything that Sen. Biden stands for, but I have to admit, I respect him for respecting the Church and the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.
Interesting. It shows you where his priorities are.
 
Joe Biden does not receive Holy Communion. I believe it is his own choice to abstain.

I disagree with almost everything that Sen. Biden stands for, but I have to admit, I respect him for respecting the Church and the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.
From what I can tell, Joe Biden has incurred latae sententiae (automatic) excommunication for publicly supporting abortion and intending to promote policies and candidates to enable more destruction of human life.

Even though he has incurred latae sententiae excommunication, I think it would be a good decision for the Bishop of his diocese to proclaim it, so that others may realize the evil of abortion and how it is unacceptable to support it.

I sincerely do wish that he fully accepts the Church and Her teachings, and can experience the gift of the Eucharist.
 
Reminder: Political candidates can be discussed ONLY in the Politics 2008 forum. All posts which mention candidates have been deleted as well as all posts which quote them.
 
He should.
But I don’t believe that we as Catholic laypeople have the authority to call a person a “heretic.”

We can certainly say that their beliefs are heretical and we can privately and publicly denounce heretical beliefs.

But we can’t call another person a heretic.

I believe that only the Church has the authority to label someone a “heretic.”

Am I correct? I would really appreciate it if someone would clarify this, because if I am incorrect, then I will consider changing my approach when I speak with so-called “pro-choice Catholics.”
How can there continue to be so much confusion on this simple question? See post #17 in this thread.
 
I’m not sure how they could continue to call themselves Catholic.
Well I’m pro-choice yet I call myself a Catholic.
But if you guys want me out so bad, I’ll just leave.
I’m sorry about my liberal views.
 
Well I’m pro-choice yet I call myself a Catholic.
But if you guys want me out so bad, I’ll just leave.
I’m sorry about my liberal views.
No, we want you in. You have separated yourself, and we desperately hope that you can understand why we as Catholics believe abortion is so terrible. I pray that you have the wisdom and humility to acknowledge that the Church and Her 2000 year history may have a bit more knowledge than yourself.
 
Well I’m pro-choice yet I call myself a Catholic.
But if you guys want me out so bad, I’ll just leave.
I’m sorry about my liberal views.
I would ask you to please join in praying for the protection of all 3 month olds that reside in a uterus. They do not yet have access to a keyboard to type their opinions onto a catholic forum. They need our support.

May God bless you and keep you.
 
To become a “Catholic” you have to be **in communion **with the Church.
To read what Mother Church,the Bride of Christ,the Body of Christ teaches about abortion…

ARTICLE 5
THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT

You shall not kill.54


You have heard that it was said to the men of old, “You shall not kill: and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.” But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment.55
**
2258 **
"Human life is sacred because** from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end**. **God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: **no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being."56

2270
Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person—among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72

*Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74*

2271
Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

*You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76*

**2272 **
Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

**
2273 **
The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity** from the moment of conception until death.**"80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child’s rights."81

2274
Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safeguarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."82

**2275 **
"One must hold as licit procedures carried out on the human embryo which respect the life and integrity of the embryo and do not involve disproportionate risks for it, but are directed toward its healing, the improvement of its condition of health, or its individual survival."83

*"It is immoral to produce human embryos intended for exploitation as disposable biological material."84

"Certain attempts to influence chromosomic or genetic inheritance are not therapeutic but are aimed at producing human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities. Such manipulations are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being and his integrity and identity"85 which are unique and unrepeatable.*

This is the 5th Commandment not the 5th Suggestion

The Catechism of the Catholic Church
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art5.shtml

Psalm 22:10-11
Code:
10 Upon You I was cast from birth;
     You have been my God from my mother's womb. 
11 Be not far from me, for trouble is near;
     For there is none to help.
 
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