D
Doc_Keele
Guest
It’s an answer:shrug:
- Status
W
Worthy5
Guest
This was answered already. No, abortion is not common sense. But limited govt is.
C
Charlemagne_II
Guest
stellamatutinaorapronobis.blogspot.com/2005/07/11-week-old-aborted-fetus-photo-speaks.html
This child and her mother are both victims of government authorization to kill the children.
This child and her mother are both victims of government authorization to kill the children.
L
lil_flower_luv
Guest
No, I believe I read you are for abortion. It’s okay, I believe that killing dogs is inhumane, except in cases where the dog most definitely deserves it. You see how silly that sounds? A dog never deserves to be killed…a dog is only as good as it’s owner. You are either for killing dogs, or you are against it. Period.OK, so do you realise I am against abortion?
Say your five year old ran in front of train. You would do whatever it takes to save his life, even if it means sacrificing your own, right? Why should things be any different for your baby (if your health is at stake)? If you think it is any less human just because it is so small, then you might as well have told Dred Scott he was only 2/5 human because he was black. Can’t you see?? The unborn are being dehumanized because they can easily be exterminated when it is convenient!!
D
Doc_Keele
Guest
Sorry but I’m not going to get into a discussion about what constitutes being “Pro-Life”
if that’s OK? Especially when you’re offering false alternatives.
You are of course free to condemn anyone who doesn’t fit your criteria as being pro-choice/pro-abortion/pro-murder/anti-life etc etc.
if that’s OK? Especially when you’re offering false alternatives.
You are of course free to condemn anyone who doesn’t fit your criteria as being pro-choice/pro-abortion/pro-murder/anti-life etc etc.
C
Charlemagne_II
Guest
*The unborn are being dehumanized because they can easily be exterminated when it is convenient!! *
The people who want abortion protected by judicial fiat seem to forget how human they used to be at 11 weeks.
Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you.
More common sense.
The people who want abortion protected by judicial fiat seem to forget how human they used to be at 11 weeks.
Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you.
More common sense.
L
lil_flower_luv
Guest
Show me where I “condemned” anyone. I’m only trying to challenge you on your position. You may change your mind on how you feel about all this.
Don’t be worried about getting off-topic. This thread is really centered around what it is to be pro-life. How else can there be a “clincher”?Sorry but I’m not going to get into a discussion about what constitutes being “Pro-Life”
if that’s OK?
Of course, if you would like to end this discussion, you may just be proving my point about how pro-choicers never really have a leg to stand on and therefore never give straight answers.
God Bless
L
lil_flower_luv
Guest
Thank you. It really is.
Another argument I would use is: How would you feel if your mother told you she once considered aborting you? Would you say it was her “choice”?
D
Doc_Keele
Guest
Hmmm it would be getting off-topic - and nice try but I’m not bitingShow me where I “condemned” anyone. I’m only trying to challenge you on your position. You may change your mind on how you feel about all this.
Don’t be worried about getting off-topic. This thread is really centered around what it is to be pro-life. How else can there be a “clincher”?
Of course, if you would like to end this discussion, you may just be proving my point about how pro-choicers never really have a leg to stand on and therefore never give straight answers.
God Bless
I could justify my position, and in other threads I have justified most of the exceptions I listed. No reason to post again, you can easily find these threads by looking through the stats on my profile:thumbsup:
I’m not “pro-choice”, however you wish to label me.
And FYI, my mother was pregnant with me just after abortion was legalised in the UK and was offered an abortion on social grounds (due to particular circumstances) and turned it down.
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
No, I’m sorry but you’re not against abortion. The new human life begins at conception, not implantation. You accept any abortion before implantation.OK, so do you realise I am against abortion?
As for the “pro-life” clincher, which by the definition of clincher being used here would be not just for me but for everyone, considering that philosophers haven’t been able to come up with one after years of formal argument by trained minds, I doubt one is going to arise out of this debate by mostly untrained minds.
That means you are not against abortion.
What is it about implantation that suddenly makes abortion wrong?
Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
L
lil_flower_luv
Guest
I don’t mean to offend, so please do not take it that way. I will try to see how you justified your views. They do not surprise me. Many think like you do…in the sense that they think it unfair for a woman to go through with a pregnancy caused by rape or incest, or if her health is poor. But you forget that that baby deserves to have a say too. And you have silenced it.Hmmm it would be getting off-topic - and nice try but I’m not biting
I could justify my position, and in other threads I have justified most of the exceptions I listed. No reason to post again, you can easily find these threads by looking through the stats on my profile:thumbsup:
I’m not “pro-choice”, however you wish to label me.
Peace to you.
L
lil_flower_luv
Guest
What a beautiful decision to make.
She chose life and I am almost 100% sure she doesn’t regret it. 
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
I have used one small question on a proabortion neighbor. He said “it” should be the mother’s choice. I just said “why doesn’t the baby get a choice?” and he stood there, without an answer (or at least without an answer he was willing to share with me). I know him pretty well (unfortunately) and I’ve never seen him just stop like he did. I expected him to at least throw one of his ad hominem attacks at me and he didn’t.Thank you. It really is.
Another argument I would use is: How would you feel if your mother told you she once considered aborting you? Would you say it was her “choice”?
So I walked away.
Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
D
Doc_Keele
Guest
OK, no offence meant so none taken
I don’t deny that the unborn child has the right to life, but I also think there are other factors to take into consideration. I don’t believe that a mother should have to die rather than have an abortion (or simply be able to use contraception of course). Baby having a say is different from baby having the only say.
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
Doc, I realize you are being somewhat inundated with posts, so I’ll repeat myself.OK, no offence meant so none taken
I don’t deny that the unborn child has the right to life, but I also think there are other factors to take into consideration. I don’t believe that a mother should have to die rather than have an abortion (or simply be able to use contraception of course). Baby having a say is different from baby having the only say.
The Church does not view the ending of a pregnancy as an abortion when it is done as a consequence of saving the mother’s life.
Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
D
Doc_Keele
Guest
She’s dead now, but if she hadn’t have had me, she’d have had just two handicapped children and a chronically schizophrenic husbandWhat a beautiful decision to make.
so at least I was there to help her
D
Doc_Keele
Guest
Well there’s the rub isn’t it? I find distinguishing between direct abortion and indirect abortion incoherent at times. There’s all the issues about foresight and intention.
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
Doc, I really wanted you to read my last post so I didn’t take the time to go into more detail then.
When a mother’s life is at stake (as in an ectopic pregnancy), the death of the child is a tragic consequence of the efforts to save the mother’s life. Ideally, both should be saved but we all know that sometimes one has to choose. In an ectopic pregnancy, the child is going to die. Maybe in the future we will have the technology to save the child, but right now we don’t.
The mother will also die if the ectopic pregnancy is not removed.
There are an awful lot of people out there who honestly believe that the Church demands that both die! And that is just not true.
To the Church, an abortion is the intended removal of the pregnancy because the mother does not want it; i.e. what is being done is being done to kill the unborn child. When an ectopic pregnancy is removed, what is being done is not being done to kill the unborn child, but to save the mother’s life.
There is a huge difference.
Medically, perhaps there is no difference. But, according to the Church, there is. This is Church teaching.
Maybe someone else can explain this better than I can. I don’t do a good job when I try to explain this.
Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
When a mother’s life is at stake (as in an ectopic pregnancy), the death of the child is a tragic consequence of the efforts to save the mother’s life. Ideally, both should be saved but we all know that sometimes one has to choose. In an ectopic pregnancy, the child is going to die. Maybe in the future we will have the technology to save the child, but right now we don’t.
The mother will also die if the ectopic pregnancy is not removed.
There are an awful lot of people out there who honestly believe that the Church demands that both die! And that is just not true.
To the Church, an abortion is the intended removal of the pregnancy because the mother does not want it; i.e. what is being done is being done to kill the unborn child. When an ectopic pregnancy is removed, what is being done is not being done to kill the unborn child, but to save the mother’s life.
There is a huge difference.
Medically, perhaps there is no difference. But, according to the Church, there is. This is Church teaching.
Maybe someone else can explain this better than I can. I don’t do a good job when I try to explain this.
Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
L
LittleSoldier
Guest
I am sorry, everyone. I didn’t explain the Church’s position well at all.
I hope somebody can help. No matter how many times I try to explain, I can’t seem to get the message across.
And that is because a child dies each time an ectopic pregnancy is removed. The Church does consider the zygote to be a human being and this is a tragic situation.
But it’s way more complicated than that. I’ll see if I can find someone who can explain it. I always fail.
I’m sorry.
Ave Maria, ora pro nobis.
I hope somebody can help. No matter how many times I try to explain, I can’t seem to get the message across.
And that is because a child dies each time an ectopic pregnancy is removed. The Church does consider the zygote to be a human being and this is a tragic situation.
But it’s way more complicated than that. I’ll see if I can find someone who can explain it. I always fail.
I’m sorry.
Ave Maria, ora pro nobis.
L
lil_flower_luv
Guest
I’m sorry.She’s dead now, but if she hadn’t have had me, she’d have had just two handicapped children and a chronically schizophrenic husband
This is true. It would be erroneous to say that the child’s life should be favored over that of the mother’s. But Doc, can any reason ever avail to excuse the direct killing of the innocent? A Catholic would ask the doctor to do whatever he could to save both the mother and her child…and leave God to do the rest.
- Status